Ultimate space simulation software

 
A-L-E-X
Galaxy Architect
Galaxy Architect
Posts: 3498
Joined: 06 Mar 2017 20:19

Intergalactic trip in preparation

27 Aug 2021 12:09

Honestly not even sure if Sync Velocity is necessary as a separate step since it doesn't bring the markers together, once I fly at the Velocity Vector bug and neutralize it, I could go straight into Hyperjump, which takes care of the other markers and lines them all up on the target.

I did spend an hour with Sync Velocity turned on, did not see the markers getting any closer, so I went straight into Hyperjump and that took care of the rest.  So going straight from Step 1 to Step 4 might be the best way to go.
scr06430.jpg
 
Mr. Abner
World Builder
World Builder
Posts: 695
Joined: 08 Jun 2017 17:05
Location: Mississauga

Intergalactic trip in preparation

27 Aug 2021 18:25

"Sync velocity" is a routine that the "Hyperjump to" autopilot calls first. So if you are using the "Hyperjump-to" autopilot, then no, you do not have to perform "Sync velocity" first. SE takes care of it for you. That's what autopilots do, no?

But you still like to run around with engines on full throttle for hours, and even days.  You might think about the possibility that at some point you may have to bleed all that speed off. It will take you just as long to do that as it took you to build it up.
 
A-L-E-X
Galaxy Architect
Galaxy Architect
Posts: 3498
Joined: 06 Mar 2017 20:19

Intergalactic trip in preparation

27 Aug 2021 18:55

"Sync velocity" is a routine that the "Hyperjump to" autopilot calls first. So if you are using the "Hyperjump-to" autopilot, then no, you do not have to perform "Sync velocity" first. SE takes care of it for you. That's what autopilots do, no?

But you still like to run around with engines on full throttle for hours, and even days.  You might think about the possibility that at some point you may have to bleed all that speed off. It will take you just as long to do that as it took you to build it up.
I was thinking that running the engines at full speed is what I need for intergalactic travel but not for orbiting or planetary journeys of course.  I'm about done with this intergalactic stuff because there are only a few interesting galaxies one can explore within the amount of time I can keep my computer on (less than 20 hours).  And I dont want to accelerate time because I consider that a form of cheating.
So the only thing I need to do before Hyperjump is to go at the Velocity Vector bug with my main engines right? Because when I was doing Hyperjump only I was always headed in the wrong direction lol.  Once I correct the Velocity Vector bug I can go straight into Hyperjump?  And this would hold true for intragalactic travel as well as intergalactic?
 
A-L-E-X
Galaxy Architect
Galaxy Architect
Posts: 3498
Joined: 06 Mar 2017 20:19

Intergalactic trip in preparation

28 Aug 2021 10:23

One minor question about running the ship at the velocity vector bug, should I keep the engines running on it until the markers fully line up or is it enough if I just run it until the velocity vector bug goes positive and then go into Hyperjump to complete the alignment of the markers on the target?
 
Mr. Abner
World Builder
World Builder
Posts: 695
Joined: 08 Jun 2017 17:05
Location: Mississauga

Intergalactic trip in preparation

30 Aug 2021 13:10

The only marker you need to line up is the hyperjump vector with your target. The delta-v marker is the direction you boost to change your ships vector through space in order to do that.

You are free to engage the hyperjump engines anytime you wish, but if you are not facing the direction you are are travelling, your efficiency will suffer. And if your hyperjump vector is not lined up with the target, you will miss your target.

You are in a spaceship, not an airplane. You do not have to be pointing in the same direction you are travelling through space.
 
A-L-E-X
Galaxy Architect
Galaxy Architect
Posts: 3498
Joined: 06 Mar 2017 20:19

Intergalactic trip in preparation

30 Aug 2021 15:09

The only marker you need to line up is the hyperjump vector with your target. The delta-v marker is the direction you boost to change your ships vector through space in order to do that.

You are free to engage the hyperjump engines anytime you wish, but if you are not facing the direction you are are travelling, your efficiency will suffer. And if your hyperjump vector is not lined up with the target, you will miss your target.

You are in a spaceship, not an airplane. You do not have to be pointing in the same direction you are travelling through space.
Right but when I aim the ship at the velocity vector bug and turn the main engines on to drive the negative anomaly down, I should at least wait for the negative anomaly to reach zero before I do anything else?
I notice that this process moves the blue and pink markers around until they finally start moving closer together.  The negative anomaly reaches positive fairly quickly but it takes a couple of hours for the markers to fully coincide.
So I can engage the hyperdrive as soon as the velocity vector bug is gone and not wait for the markers to be superimposed on each other is what you're saying and as long as the negative velocity vector bug is gone I should be good to reach my target?  Everything else should be taken care of by the hyperdrive because it calls up sync velocity and rotate to target.
 
Mr. Abner
World Builder
World Builder
Posts: 695
Joined: 08 Jun 2017 17:05
Location: Mississauga

Intergalactic trip in preparation

30 Aug 2021 15:44

You can use the autopilots, or you can fly manually. What do you want to do?
 
A-L-E-X
Galaxy Architect
Galaxy Architect
Posts: 3498
Joined: 06 Mar 2017 20:19

Intergalactic trip in preparation

30 Aug 2021 16:18

You can use the autopilots, or you can fly manually. What do you want to do?
well I want to do both because just using the autopilot doesn't work well because of the velocity vector bug.  I just don't want to wait hours for the markers to be fully aligned before going into hyperspace lol.  As long as I can jump as soon as the velocity vector bug has turned positive, I should be good to go.
 
User avatar
longname
Pioneer
Pioneer
Posts: 380
Joined: 13 Apr 2017 07:20
Location: ∞/The Multiverse/The Universe/Local Cluster/The Milky Way/Orion Arm/Sol System/Earth-Moon/Earth/UK

Intergalactic trip in preparation

30 Aug 2021 17:18

I'm a little disappointed, I thought there would be a warp bubble around the ship.
That warp bubble is precisely the thing distorting the background.
[dah<500,26>dah<180,14>dah<180,21>dah<500,19>dah<180,26>dah<500,21>]
 
A-L-E-X
Galaxy Architect
Galaxy Architect
Posts: 3498
Joined: 06 Mar 2017 20:19

Intergalactic trip in preparation

30 Aug 2021 17:52

I'm a little disappointed, I thought there would be a warp bubble around the ship.
That warp bubble is precisely the thing distorting the background.
The funny thing is I see it most when I switch between cameras.  I was hoping to see a more defined boundary between the bubble and outside the bubble, but I guess it's easier to see when there are more stars in the background like when traveling inside a galaxy.
You seem to be well versed in these things so I'll ask you this.  If this does eventually prove to be a workable propulsion method (that is, if we eventually discover negative energy), would a crew be able to communicate in real time with say, planet Earth, while they were in warp (for example, like a zoom call?)  I would guess not?  Also let's say a trip was planned to a system 100 LY away and was reached in, say, 30 days, using hyperjump; once at the destination would we be able to use hyperspace for communication (so it wouldn't take 100 years for the message to get back to Earth?)  One other thing, if a round trip was planned using hyperjumps to the same system, take a month to get there, spend a month there and another month to come back.....how much time would've passed on Earth when they got back?  Would it be the same 3 months of time that the astronauts experienced or would more time have passed for earthers?
 
Mr. Abner
World Builder
World Builder
Posts: 695
Joined: 08 Jun 2017 17:05
Location: Mississauga

Intergalactic trip in preparation

30 Aug 2021 20:38

well I want to do both because just using the autopilot doesn't work well because of the velocity vector bug.
Where does it not work well? When you have built up excessive physical velocity? Don't do that.

I cannot speak for Vlad, of course, but I'm sure he did not envision using this iteration of the hyperspace engine to travel to distant galaxies. Not that it can't be done. The OP of this thread tells you how to go about it. It is not easy, though. You want point-and-click easy. In that case, change the strength of your warp engines rather than trying to build up ludicrous speeds, and complain that you can't change direction fast enough.

Practice on closer targets. Say, less than 100 light-years or so.
 
A-L-E-X
Galaxy Architect
Galaxy Architect
Posts: 3498
Joined: 06 Mar 2017 20:19

Intergalactic trip in preparation

30 Aug 2021 21:10

well I want to do both because just using the autopilot doesn't work well because of the velocity vector bug.
Where does it not work well? When you have built up excessive physical velocity? Don't do that.

I cannot speak for Vlad, of course, but I'm sure he did not envision using this iteration of the hyperspace engine to travel to distant galaxies. Not that it can't be done. The OP of this thread tells you how to go about it. It is not easy, though. You want point-and-click easy. In that case, change the strength of your warp engines rather than trying to build up ludicrous speeds, and complain that you can't change direction fast enough.

Practice on closer targets. Say, less than 100 light-years or so.
No I meant it doesn't work until I get rid of the velocity vector bug first.  I just needed to know that once that (-) is turned to (+) I can turn on Hyperjump and that will automatically get me to the target rather than wait for the markers to completely line up.  It's getting me there, it's just not a directly reproducible result. In other words, let's say I tried going to the same target 10 times.  The first time I did I got there in 13 hours.  That was the quickest.  Other times it's varied from 16 hours to 20 hours.  It depends on how long I keep the main engines on before I select Hyperjump.
Let me ask it in a different way that might make more sense.....if I leave the main engines running until the markers are all lined up I build up a huge positive velocity vector (I'm talking about something like 1,400+ km/sec).....if I then press Hyperjump it takes about 4 hours to work that down before the ship goes into warp.  Is building up such a high positive velocity vector after the negative velocity vector bug has been neutralized something I should avoid and should I directly go to Hyperjump as soon as it reaches 0 and before it goes too far into the positive range?
 
Mr. Abner
World Builder
World Builder
Posts: 695
Joined: 08 Jun 2017 17:05
Location: Mississauga

Intergalactic trip in preparation

30 Aug 2021 21:44

I'll try one more time... the SE warp drives operates by getting your velocity through real space up to about 10 km/sec and heading directly towards your target. It does this by showing you a delta-v — change in velocity — bug on your screen. It is saying "fly in this direction until the delta-v shown drops to zero". That will have changed your direction and speed through real space to put your hyperspace bug on your target.

Now you can rotate towards your target (or, in reality, the hyperspace vector), and engage the warp drive.  If you want, you can by all means fire up the main engines again. You will build up speed, and that will be translated into greater warp speed. But the basic autopilot was not made to take 1,400 km/sec speeds into account. It will try and bleed that off, and it takes time to do that.

Answer me this: You are travelling at 10 km/sec and you need to adjust your course 20 degrees to starboard. Another ship is travelling at 1,400 km/sec and needs to adjust its course by 20 degrees. They both have the same mass and engines capable of 12.2g of thrust. Which one do you think will achieve the course correction first?


Also: Your target is 6.7 million light-years away, but your velocity vector is off by one-half a degree. Without any course corrections, by how much will you miss your target?
 
A-L-E-X
Galaxy Architect
Galaxy Architect
Posts: 3498
Joined: 06 Mar 2017 20:19

Intergalactic trip in preparation

30 Aug 2021 23:18

I'll try one more time... the SE warp drives operates by getting your velocity through real space up to about 10 km/sec and heading directly towards your target. It does this by showing you a delta-v — change in velocity — bug on your screen. It is saying "fly in this direction until the delta-v shown drops to zero". That will have changed your direction and speed through real space to put your hyperspace bug on your target.

Now you can rotate towards your target (or, in reality, the hyperspace vector), and engage the warp drive.  If you want, you can by all means fire up the main engines again. You will build up speed, and that will be translated into greater warp speed. But the basic autopilot was not made to take 1,400 km/sec speeds into account. It will try and bleed that off, and it takes time to do that.

Answer me this: You are travelling at 10 km/sec and you need to adjust your course 20 degrees to starboard. Another ship is travelling at 1,400 km/sec and needs to adjust its course by 20 degrees. They both have the same mass and engines capable of 12.2g of thrust. Which one do you think will achieve the course correction first?


Also: Your target is 6.7 million light-years away, but your velocity vector is off by one-half a degree. Without any course corrections, by how much will you miss your target?
Ah okay so it's silly for me to keep going in that direction after the bug has been neutralized to zero even though if I keep it up the crosshairs of the velocity vector and boost factor line up.  So I wasted 2 extra hours there and then another 4 hours after selecting Hyperjump to cancel out the positive bug that built up from waiting that extra 2 hours.  That explains why the journey's length is variable.....13 hours + 6 hours = 19 hours which explains why it was taking longer when I unnecessarily ran the main engines at full blast in the direction of a bug that no longer exists.  So from now on I'll turn on Hyperjump as soon as the negative velocity vector bug is gone, regardless of where the markers are.  The 1,400 km/sec was only happening because I kept flying in that direction even after the negative velocity vector bug was gone, for an extra 2 hours, to get the green and pink markers right on top of each other.  Which now seems completely unnecessary lol.  The 'fly in this direction to neutralize the delta v bug' I can do that at Main engines 100 though right because the higher the engine thrust the faster the bug will be corrected?  Just dont stay in that direction any longer than it takes for the negative velocity vector bug to go away and then select Hyperjump right away?

One thing though, I don't need to select rotate to target correct?  I can just select Hyperjump and that will both sync velocity and rotate to target?  Because I see it automatically calls both functions.

lol that first question is easy, the first ship will achieve the directional change 140x sooner because its velocity is 140x slower.  

I'm actually not sure about the answer to the other question but let's try some deductive reasoning.  The Andromeda Galaxy is 2.54 million light years away and about 3 degrees wide.  A galaxy that is 6.7 million light years away is 2.64x further away than M31 but since the course correction would amount to half a degree, it should be one sixth the width of M31 at its distance.  So 220,000 ly divided by 6 which is 36,667 Ly but then you have to multiply that by 2.64x to see how far off you'd be at 6.7 million Ly without applying the course correction and it turns into a whopping 96,800 Ly!  Did I get that right?
 
User avatar
longname
Pioneer
Pioneer
Posts: 380
Joined: 13 Apr 2017 07:20
Location: ∞/The Multiverse/The Universe/Local Cluster/The Milky Way/Orion Arm/Sol System/Earth-Moon/Earth/UK

Intergalactic trip in preparation

31 Aug 2021 10:31

The funny thing is I see it most when I switch between cameras.  I was hoping to see a more defined boundary between the bubble and outside the bubble, but I guess it's easier to see when there are more stars in the background like when traveling inside a galaxy.
But there is a well defined boundary if you zoom out. You're inside that bubble so you don't see the edge.
You seem to be well versed in these things so I'll ask you this.  If this does eventually prove to be a workable propulsion method (that is, if we eventually discover negative energy), would a crew be able to communicate in real time with say, planet Earth, while they were in warp (for example, like a zoom call?)  I would guess not?
'Would a crew be able to communicate'
I don't know.
'in real time'
No.
Also let's say a trip was planned to a system 100 LY away and was reached in, say, 30 days, using hyperjump; once at the destination would we be able to use hyperspace for communication (so it wouldn't take 100 years for the message to get back to Earth?)
What does 'using hyperspace' mean here?
One other thing, if a round trip was planned using hyperjumps to the same system, take a month to get there, spend a month there and another month to come back.....how much time would've passed on Earth when they got back?  Would it be the same 3 months of time that the astronauts experienced or would more time have passed for earthers?
Alcubierre drives can create geodesics that trace back in time I.E. I don't know.
[dah<500,26>dah<180,14>dah<180,21>dah<500,19>dah<180,26>dah<500,21>]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests