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Posted: 18 Jul 2021 00:25
by Leyo
I made a video where you can easily see the difference between the old and the new algorithm. Please watch it in 1080p minimum ; it is better in 1440p.

https://youtu.be/EtxwCgi53GA

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Posted: 18 Jul 2021 10:12
by SpaceEngineer
This is not beacuse new algorithm has lower sharpness limit (well, it has, because values > 1 are not allowed because of graphical glitches). The thing is that galaxy/nebula rendering used its own sharpness pass, but in 1955 I switched it off. Because otherwise skybox/impostor nebulae will be oversharped (sharpness applied twice). I will consider to find another solution.

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Posted: 18 Jul 2021 10:48
by Leyo
Thanks a lot for considering this subject.
wouldn't it be easier for you to just let the choice with a tick or a switch in the menu ? 
People affected by black borders could choose CAS while people with higher res could choose the old one. Everyone would be served, and you won't have to spent many time on researching and testing a new solution (a charge you probably weren't expecting).

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Posted: 18 Jul 2021 16:27
by Khorrah
There will be an galaxy visual improvement?

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Posted: 18 Jul 2021 21:33
by A-L-E-X
Leyo wrote:
Thanks a lot for considering this subject.
wouldn't it be easier for you to just let the choice with a tick or a switch in the menu ? 
People affected by black borders could choose CAS while people with higher res could choose the old one. Everyone would be served, and you won't have to spent many time on researching and testing a new solution (a charge you probably weren't expecting).

where are there black borders?  My screen resolution is 1280x1024 but my videos are in 720P using OBS, I find it useful because cutting off the bottom of the screen cuts off the console displays, so it's mostly about scenery and not the control panel.

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Posted: 19 Jul 2021 08:32
by Leyo
AS far as i understood, Vladimir set up a new algorithm mostly because  some people suffers from seeing black lines on borders of some objects. On my side i'v never seen them too.

@Khorrah
This is just a new algortihm for general sharpness, not especially the galaxies. I asked Vladimir if he could keep the old one available because the new one can has unwanted effects on some config/resolution.

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Posted: 19 Jul 2021 08:45
by A-L-E-X
Leyo wrote:
AS far as i understood, Vladimir set up a new algorithm mostly because  some people suffers from seeing black lines on borders of some objects. On my side i'v never seen them too.

@Khorrah
This is just a new algortihm for general sharpness, not especially the galaxies. I asked Vladimir if he could keep the old one available because the new one can has unwanted effects on some config/resolution.

Oh thanks, I thought it was black borders on the edges of the screen when 4:3 video is displayed in 16:9 format lol.  I've never seen it so never knew this problem even existed lol.

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Posted: 19 Jul 2021 13:38
by SpaceEngineer
Just look at stars in front of Milky Way with sharpness 1 or more, and you will see (in older versions).

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Posted: 19 Jul 2021 14:37
by longname
SpaceEngineer wrote:
Just look at stars in front of Milky Way with sharpness 1 or more, and you will see (in older versions).

I don't see the problem

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Posted: 19 Jul 2021 14:40
by SpaceEngineer
Leyo wrote:
This is just a new algortihm for general sharpness, not especially the galaxies. I asked Vladimir if he could keep the old one available because the new one can has unwanted effects on some config/resolution.

Galaxies/nebulae have theor own sharpness pass, but it was disabled, because the global (scene) sharpness did the job even better. And having double sharpness makes them over-sharpen. Now I added adaptive sharpness pass for galaxies/nebulae, which is reversed to the global sharpness slider value. You can disable this "auto sharp" in the debug window, if you with to have oversharpen nebulae (SE will remember your choise in the config).

Screenshots for comparison - open in the new tab.

All sharpness is off.
scr00864.jpg


Galaxy/nebula sharpness is at 1 ("Volum sharp"), global at 0 ("Global sharp"). Stars are not sharpen, looks the same as in previous screenshot. Nebulae are great now.
scr00865.jpg


Galaxy/nebula sharpness is at 0 ("Volum sharp"), global at 1 ("Global sharp"). Stars are sharpen, which is acually unwanted. Big nebula looks almost the same. But look at the pink sprite nebula near the left edge, and at the tiny nebula near the bottom. They look much better now! Global (CAS) sharpness works better than a special nebula sharpness pass.
scr00866.jpg


Both sharpness is at 1. This is too much IMHO. Note oversharpen black blobs in the big nebula.
scr00867.jpg


So the "Volum auto sharp" checkbox enables adaptation, so that "Volum sharp" is locked and its value = 1 - Global sharp value. The same system is used for 3D rings ("Solid sharp"), because they look especially horrible then sharpness applied twice.

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Posted: 19 Jul 2021 14:51
by longname
SpaceEngineer wrote:
Source of the post Galaxy/nebula sharpness is at 1 ("Volum sharp"), global at 0 ("Global sharp"). Stars are not sharpen, looks the same as in previous screenshot. Nebulae are great now.

Personally I preferred the 'oversharpened' nebula. I don't like the blurrier, just generally not as good nebula you've not provided us with the option to not use.

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Posted: 19 Jul 2021 15:28
by HarbingerDawn
This is the ideal sharpening experience. You may not like it, but this is what peak visuals looks like.

Image



Jokes aside, those of you who were using very high sharpening values, did you have FXAA enabled? If so, you should disable it.

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Posted: 20 Jul 2021 09:25
by Leyo
@Space Engineer
 I now understand what you were working on. I've always seen those black dots/lines on nebulae, but it always seemed obvious to me that it was caused by the nebulae model/texture itself.

Because we can see it even more when we get close to it (screenshot taken with the new sharpness). And because many others Nebulaes don't have this issue.
scr00079.jpg


FXAA disabled definitly renders better visuals with new sharpness algorithm... but is it normal ? i don't think so.
With this trick and those given by Space Engineer with the debug toolbox, we can approach what we had before, which is a good news.
But we still have lost the clear vision of depth that comes along with the old algorithm, which also sharpened the stars. 

I maintain we lost a bit in global visual quality, but since it has a large (full ?) part of subjectivity and the release has been made, i just hope the old algorithm will be available again in futures update.

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Posted: 21 Jul 2021 07:35
by Marud
I registered specially to ask one question. After the release of rings, what is the new big goal? Clouds? Water? Please don't say this is ships' fuel or their temperature stuff, nobody wants that, it's no use. I'd wish that the new big update was improving real planets. So painful to see Earth and Mars that flat and boring. Isn't it the time to reimagine them? I mean add detailed landscapes above the existing map.

Work progress 0.991

Posted: 21 Jul 2021 09:28
by longname
Marud wrote:
Source of the post  After the release of rings, what is the new big goal? Clouds? Water? Please don't say this is ships' fuel or their temperature stuff, nobody wants that, it's no use.

As someone who enjoys the flight simulator mode, it's only no use to you. You don't choose what everyone else wants. To see ships worked inbetween graphical overhauls would give us something to do in the meanwhile.

Marud wrote:
Source of the post I'd wish that the new big update was improving real planets. So painful to see Earth and Mars that flat and boring. Isn't it the time to reimagine them? I mean add detailed landscapes above the existing map.

The main problem as I see it is generating procedural details on top of mapped planets. If SpaceEngineer got it to work, then you might end up with unrealistic coastlines. At least SpaceEngineer has a more realistic map for Earth cooking up with better, more accurate visuals, although it still won't add small details.