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midtskogen
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Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread

25 Dec 2021 04:44

That happened here in NY too!  That charge is unbelievable, there is no reason for a $4000 charge, none at all.
The incident I'm referring to, might have been in NY.  Maybe he got a more expensive test analysed right away, but $4000 is lunacy.  Private clinics offer PCR tests here analysed within 20 minutes, but they charge more like $200 stressing that this is not the free public test which usually gives the result in a day or so.
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Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread

25 Dec 2021 13:25

Private clinics offer PCR tests here analysed within 20 minutes, but they charge more like $200 stressing that this is not the free public test which usually gives the result in a day or so.
It's generally the same deal in the US. Free testing is available at many clinics and pharmacies, with the samples sent to pathology labs which usually report the result back between 1 and 4 days later depending on their workload. Rapid testing (20 mins to a couple hours) is available at other sites and airports for a fee, usually around $100-200. That service is more convenient for travelers, who may need proof of negative COVID test within a specific timeframe.

Rapid self-test kits can also be bought at most drug stores, but the supply is very limited now between the Omicron surge and holidays. The Biden administration purchased 500 million of them and is offering to mail a kit for free to any household that wants one, but that won't be until sometime in January. Too late for the holidays which would have been nice, and probably even too late for most of Omicron, except maybe in the more rural counties that get hit later.

There have been a few instances of scams where people have been charged outrageous amounts of money for a fake COVID test. Not sure if that's what happened in that case, but even if legitimate, $4000 is totally insane.
 
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Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread

25 Dec 2021 21:01

Private clinics offer PCR tests here analysed within 20 minutes, but they charge more like $200 stressing that this is not the free public test which usually gives the result in a day or so.
It's generally the same deal in the US. Free testing is available at many clinics and pharmacies, with the samples sent to pathology labs which usually report the result back between 1 and 4 days later depending on their workload. Rapid testing (20 mins to a couple hours) is available at other sites and airports for a fee, usually around $100-200. That service is more convenient for travelers, who may need proof of negative COVID test within a specific timeframe.

Rapid self-test kits can also be bought at most drug stores, but the supply is very limited now between the Omicron surge and holidays. The Biden administration purchased 500 million of them and is offering to mail a kit for free to any household that wants one, but that won't be until sometime in January. Too late for the holidays which would have been nice, and probably even too late for most of Omicron, except maybe in the more rural counties that get hit later.

There have been a few instances of scams where people have been charged outrageous amounts of money for a fake COVID test. Not sure if that's what happened in that case, but even if legitimate, $4000 is totally insane.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... gh-bill-er
lol you think 4000 is bad- how about 54000?!
The Coronavirus Crisis
The Bill For His COVID Test In Texas Was A Whopping $54,000




[*]

September 30, 20215:00 AM ET
Heard on All Things Considered

[*]Travis Warner of Dallas got tested for the coronavirus at a free-standing emergency room in June 2020 after one of his colleagues tested positive for the virus. The emergency room bill included a $54,000 charge for one test.                                  
Last edited by A-L-E-X on 25 Dec 2021 21:09, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread

25 Dec 2021 21:04

Private clinics offer PCR tests here analysed within 20 minutes, but they charge more like $200 stressing that this is not the free public test which usually gives the result in a day or so.
It's generally the same deal in the US. Free testing is available at many clinics and pharmacies, with the samples sent to pathology labs which usually report the result back between 1 and 4 days later depending on their workload. Rapid testing (20 mins to a couple hours) is available at other sites and airports for a fee, usually around $100-200. That service is more convenient for travelers, who may need proof of negative COVID test within a specific timeframe.

Rapid self-test kits can also be bought at most drug stores, but the supply is very limited now between the Omicron surge and holidays. The Biden administration purchased 500 million of them and is offering to mail a kit for free to any household that wants one, but that won't be until sometime in January. Too late for the holidays which would have been nice, and probably even too late for most of Omicron, except maybe in the more rural counties that get hit later.

There have been a few instances of scams where people have been charged outrageous amounts of money for a fake COVID test. Not sure if that's what happened in that case, but even if legitimate, $4000 is totally insane.
US healthcare costs are horrendous.  On MedTwitter I've seen doctors complain about it too and that it's because of corporate takeovers of hospitals.  California sued one of these corporations and won so there's hope that other states can do the same.  Basically a corporation buys up all or most of the hospitals in a state, becomes a monopoly and jacks up the prices as high as it wants- it's absolutely ridiculously.  Pharma does the same thing with drug prices and their lobbyists fight to keep drug prices unregulated and fight against universal healthcare which the rest of the developed world enjoys.  US healthcare is ranked last in the developed world (highest costs for worst results) 11 out 11.
 
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Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread

26 Dec 2021 09:05

Whether $2000, $4000 or $54,000 it should be regarded as insurance fraud.  I suppose they bill this because insurance companies have the money, or they inflate the costs wildly to get negotiation space.  But in civilised countries inflating costs when making an insurance claim is considered fraud.  Surely if a private citizen claimed that his stolen $100 watch was worth $54,000 when making an insurance claim, he would risk severe penalty and jail.
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Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread

27 Dec 2021 07:42

Whether $2000, $4000 or $54,000 it should be regarded as insurance fraud.  I suppose they bill this because insurance companies have the money, or they inflate the costs wildly to get negotiation space.  But in civilised countries inflating costs when making an insurance claim is considered fraud.  Surely if a private citizen claimed that his stolen $100 watch was worth $54,000 when making an insurance claim, he would risk severe penalty and jail.
Exactly!  It's really bad and the lobbyists who control politics by paying off politicians make reform unlikely.  It's like political parties don't even matter because they pay off both equally.  I like European politics better with more than two dominant parties.
 
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Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread

02 Jan 2022 16:12

Oh well, I can't rush, they say, so I wont rush.
Ok, normally I accept a "no", but it made no sense to me having been offered a booster to wait until I've been through several airports and hotels when I don't really need it anymore, so I called to ask again if I could move the date, and did get a booking for a third Moderna some days ago.  They were out of Moderna when I showed up, so Pfizer it was instead.  Unlike the second Moderna which knocked me out, usual side effects were more subtle this time (no fever or chill, less muscle ache, less fatigue).  Something new was that I got a pretty large swelling in my left armpit (the lymph node), which has become slightly better today on the 4th day.  And possibly that I've spontaneously nosebled twice. That can happen two or three times in a year, but twice two days apart now seems curious.  But I haven't been incapacitated in any way this time.  Still, to pester the immune system this way every few months is clearly not the way ahead.  The current vaccines are clearly not even close to stopping the pandemic.  Politicians need to stop promoting the vaccines as the solution.  They just lose credibility.  Sure, keep offering them, but they should be clearer about for who it's worth it.  Norwegian health authorities have at least been somewhat open about this, saying that vaccines are not worth the risk for those younger than 12, and for 12 - 15 only one dose, 16 - 17: get one, get the second if you like, 18 - 45: get two, the third probably not worth it, but take it if you wish, 46-65: get two, a third is also fine, 65+: get three.  But there is a lot of political pressure to push vaccines on as many as possible.
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Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread

03 Jan 2022 06:48

Unlike the second Moderna which knocked me out, usual side effects were more subtle this time (no fever or chill, less muscle ache, less fatigue).
This seems consistent with a number of reports from friends and people on the Discord server who have had both types. The Moderna vaccine is a slightly higher dose than Pfizer's (from what I have read, 50 microgram instead of 30), and there may very well be differences due to the design of the vaccine itself that could explain why it hits harder.

Glad to hear you managed to get one. Meanwhile Israel is yet again leading most of the rest of the world and is offering fourth doses for people over 60. I guess a bonus of them doing that is we get more real-world data on how safe and effective that is.
The current vaccines are clearly not even close to stopping the pandemic.
Due to mutation, which it did not take very long to realize is important, vaccination cannot feasibly stop the pandemic. But what's important is that vaccination reduces the case fatality and hospitalization rates, and reducing those helps get closer to a sense of normalcy.
 
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Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread

03 Jan 2022 07:37

The Moderna vaccine is a slightly higher dose (from what I have read, 50 microgram instead of 30)
Yes, and that's only half the dose of the two first.
Due to mutation, which it did not take very long to realize is important, vaccination cannot feasibly stop the pandemic (unless the whole world were vaccinated very rapidly, which isn't happening). But what's important is that vaccination helps reduce the case fatality rate and hospital load, and reducing those helps get closer to a sense of normalcy.
Even before Omicron it was clear that the vaccines weren't stopping the pandemic.  We got a wave of Delta amongst the fully vaccinated.  Omicron has come on top of that wave and now accounts for 2/3 of the cases nationwide here.  What I'm criticising is a strategy that appears stuck on vaccination.  There's a tendency to put all the faith in the vaccines and blame the unvaccinated for the lack of complete success, but that is no longer credible.  So, yes, it must be admitted that the mission of the current vaccines is mainly to reduce the hospital load.  And I think it's a reasonable question to ask now whether vaccination of healthy people younger than 40 years is critical, whose risk of hospitalisation is very, very low.  If covid has to burn its way through the population no matter what, the best time might be to get it over with whilst the more vulnerable still have some immunity from the vaccines.  The vaccines should be offered to all, but some of the resources now spent on keeping vaccinating young, healthy people might be better spent elsewhere.

The pandemic has allowed an important experiment for mRNA vaccines.  It's important to know whether these vaccines are an important step forward.  It seems, however, that the mRNA vaccines are not the silver bullet that people were hoping for, and that they could wear off sooner than traditional protein based vaccines.  If so, mRNA vaccines might have a future as a tool to buy some time before more lasting protein based vaccines get developed.
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Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread

03 Jan 2022 12:38

Due to mutation, which it did not take very long to realize is important, vaccination cannot feasibly stop the pandemic. But what's important is that vaccination reduces the case fatality and hospitalization rates, and reducing those helps get closer to a sense of normalcy.
Yeah, I think we'll never get rid of Coronavirus. We'll just cohabit with it, it will slowly evolve into a seasonal disease as Influenza and in the meanwhile we'll develop the resistance we need to not get hospitalized more often than we do we normal flu... (a lot of people gets hospitalized for flu every year and dies too, unfortunately!)
I'm pretty sure vaccines will be used forever, I just hope they'll stop being "mandatory"!
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Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread

04 Jan 2022 15:57

Yeah, I think we'll never get rid of Coronavirus. We'll just cohabit with it, it will slowly evolve into a seasonal disease as Influenza and in the meanwhile we'll develop the resistance we need to not get hospitalized more often than we do we normal flu... (a lot of people gets hospitalized for flu every year and dies too, unfortunately!)
I'm pretty sure vaccines will be used forever, I just hope they'll stop being "mandatory"!
The flu vaccine is "only" once a year, and is not something that is not pushed on young, healthy people.  The covid vaccines might also end up like this, but that would require current strategies to be abandoned.  The current course is still "get the vaccine, the vaccine, the vaccine".

Despite the praise I find the effects of the vaccines fairly disappointing.  The hope they offered was high so this admission comes slowly.  Reduces risk of hospitalisation, yes, but minimal protection against infection.  Maybe the vaccines still being developed will be more effective, but I wonder how new covid vaccines can be reliably tested.  The unvaccinated are in decline, and those who don't trust vaccines certainly wont try an experimental one, and those who only trust vaccines that have been tested for at least a year, will now take the current vaccines, not an experimental one.  The rest will have very mixed protection already depending on which vaccines they've taken, number of doses and how long ago, so judging the effect of another vaccine will be complex.  And is it morally ok to offer an experimental vaccine in countries which have had a scarcity of vaccines rather than offering properly tested vaccines?

The stock markets don't seem to care about the virus anymore.  That might be an indicator that eventually few will care.  Maybe the mood will turn more fatalistic.
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Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread

10 Jan 2022 21:45

Unlike the second Moderna which knocked me out, usual side effects were more subtle this time (no fever or chill, less muscle ache, less fatigue).
This seems consistent with a number of reports from friends and people on the Discord server who have had both types. The Moderna vaccine is a slightly higher dose than Pfizer's (from what I have read, 50 microgram instead of 30), and there may very well be differences due to the design of the vaccine itself that could explain why it hits harder.

Glad to hear you managed to get one. Meanwhile Israel is yet again leading most of the rest of the world and is offering fourth doses for people over 60. I guess a bonus of them doing that is we get more real-world data on how safe and effective that is.
The current vaccines are clearly not even close to stopping the pandemic.
Due to mutation, which it did not take very long to realize is important, vaccination cannot feasibly stop the pandemic. But what's important is that vaccination reduces the case fatality and hospitalization rates, and reducing those helps get closer to a sense of normalcy.
Wat, there are also reports of Deltacron now coming out of Europe..... a combination of Delta and Omicron.  I wonder if this will spread to the rest of the world?
 
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Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread

10 Jan 2022 21:47

The Moderna vaccine is a slightly higher dose (from what I have read, 50 microgram instead of 30)
Yes, and that's only half the dose of the two first.
Due to mutation, which it did not take very long to realize is important, vaccination cannot feasibly stop the pandemic (unless the whole world were vaccinated very rapidly, which isn't happening). But what's important is that vaccination helps reduce the case fatality rate and hospital load, and reducing those helps get closer to a sense of normalcy.
Even before Omicron it was clear that the vaccines weren't stopping the pandemic.  We got a wave of Delta amongst the fully vaccinated.  Omicron has come on top of that wave and now accounts for 2/3 of the cases nationwide here.  What I'm criticising is a strategy that appears stuck on vaccination.  There's a tendency to put all the faith in the vaccines and blame the unvaccinated for the lack of complete success, but that is no longer credible.  So, yes, it must be admitted that the mission of the current vaccines is mainly to reduce the hospital load.  And I think it's a reasonable question to ask now whether vaccination of healthy people younger than 40 years is critical, whose risk of hospitalisation is very, very low.  If covid has to burn its way through the population no matter what, the best time might be to get it over with whilst the more vulnerable still have some immunity from the vaccines.  The vaccines should be offered to all, but some of the resources now spent on keeping vaccinating young, healthy people might be better spent elsewhere.

The pandemic has allowed an important experiment for mRNA vaccines.  It's important to know whether these vaccines are an important step forward.  It seems, however, that the mRNA vaccines are not the silver bullet that people were hoping for, and that they could wear off sooner than traditional protein based vaccines.  If so, mRNA vaccines might have a future as a tool to buy some time before more lasting protein based vaccines get developed.
Do we have any protein based vaccines for this?  I heard the new Novavax vaccine coming out next month is protein based?
 
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Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread

11 Jan 2022 01:03

  I heard the new Novavax vaccine coming out next month is protein based?
Yes, and it will be interesting to see how it compares to mRNA vaccines.  And since many unvaccinated have considered mRNA vaccines too experimental, it might offer an alternative to those.

I have just come home after flying Oslo->Prague->Amsterdam->Oslo.  To sum up: unless you really need to travel abroad, don't bother, too much hassle and too unpredictable.  I (recently boosted) was travelling with my daughter (unvaccined, recovered), and we needed proof of a negative PCR to travel into Czechia, and a new test after 5 days which didn't apply since we left sooner, and we needed to take an antigen test within 24h after returning to Norway (but risking to queue up at the airport for that test before allowed to leave).  And we were also required to fill out passenger locator forms online before travel.  Sounds fairly easy.  But the PCR test has to be no older than 72 hours, and with the ongoing wave that's about how much time it takes before tests get analysed.  So in the evening before we were to fly out the next morning the results were still missing, and I had to shell out for express PCR tests at nearly $250 each to get proof right away.  Since I live in Oslo, it was at least practically possible to get this test (if there are vacant slots).  I was told it would take 30 minutes, but hours went by, no results, so I had to go back to the test station to check before it closed for the night (they had no phone number on their website).  A problem with their machine.  I got my proof in the end.  Maybe I didn't need it.  Boosted people were exempted from testing, but whether that was valid from the first day after the shot, a week, or two weeks was impossible to find out, and mine was only a few days old.  The information was ambiguous and unclear, so I couldn't risk it.  These results were actually checked by the airline before boarding and those who were still waiting for the results were denied boarding.  Nobody cared to check in the immigration, though.  The results from the first, wasted PCR test came during the flight for my daughter and in the evening for myself, way too late.  New problems when checking in for the return.  They wanted to see a new recent proof of a negative test, but that was wrong.  No such thing required for going to Norway.  Maybe it's a requirement for the Netherlands, but we were only going there in transit.  We were allowed to check in and fly eventually, but it seems to depend on how well informed the people in the counter are.  And we braced for a long wait in a packed area to be tested upon arrival.  Several flights were arriving at the same time, probably a thousand people in half an hour and the area reserved for people waiting to be tested appeared to be something like 50 m², perhaps capable of receiving a 1/4 full flight.  Sensibly, everybody were therefore just waved past instructed to do the test at home, and buy tests at a pharmacy if necessary (which are mostly sold out, anyway).  So in theory travel is possible if you do your homework, but the trouble is that whether that is good enough depends on things out of your control, like getting results in time, finding vacant slots for testing at the right time, whether people in the counter are correctly informed, and how to interpret the rules (like, the requirements and exceptions for entering Czechia differed slightly depending on whether you read the English or Czech text).  I also decided to shell out for parking at the airport as extra insurance, because if I either of us had been tested at the airport after returning and got a positive result, we would have been locked up in a hotel if we had to depend on public transport to get home.

One can wonder, why bother.  Yesterday, the number of new cases registered in Oslo equals more than 0.5% of the entire population.  In a single day.  And it's still estimated that the true number of new cases is about twice the confirmed cases.
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Coronavirus (COVID-19) Thread

11 Jan 2022 01:04

Wat, there are also reports of Deltacron now coming out of Europe..... a combination of Delta and Omicron.  I wonder if this will spread to the rest of the world?
Last I read, experts have raised some doubt that it is a real variant and not just a result of contamination. Even if it is real, I wouldn't be concerned about it yet. I think it's unlikely something with a combination of Delta and Omicron's properties would compete well when Delta and Omicron have already moved through.

The only tried and true way to really know how any variant will behave is to see how it behaves, unfortunately. Omicron was actually around for a very long time, but wasn't noticed and classified a variant of concern until rapidly growing clusters of outbreaks including in vaccinated and recovered people were sequenced.

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