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A-L-E-X
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Astrobiology in Space Engine

27 Dec 2018 23:11

Stellarator wrote:
Astro-Eagle wrote:
Source of the post "No man's sky"

You have breached the most sacred rule of the SE forum, Astro-eagle: mentioning the existence of that accursed game! You may have to be banned.... :P.

Astro-Eagle wrote:
Source of the post Could Space Engine make something similar too?

Certainly, and because SE is a true space simulator and NOT a fictional work like The Game That Will Not Be Named, it would have a far more accurate depiction of alien life, based on the latest research and theories like the rest of the astronomical data in the game. But, as stated countless times, that is something for the far future, once everything already in-game has been finalized and the game has it's official release(s). The implementation of extraterrestrial life that is generated and presented in a plausible way that meshes well with the tone of the simulator would be a time-consuming addition. No doubt it would be one added incrementally, building off of the already existing and so far generalistic ET parameters.

Yes and I really dont like the term "game" being used for SE, it's a universe simulator like Starry Night or Celestia.  
As far as simulating life, I'd like to see structures rather than actually animated life.  It leaves something to the imagination.  Nothing wrong with showing stuff like trees and grassland and etc (photosynthesis in different colors like we have discussed) but also things like floating cities, and towers made of sparkling crystal but mysteriously empty and quiet with long winding passages and dark dreary dungeons and marvelous new forms of technology and even cities inside transparent domes, but all mysteriously abandoned.  But perhaps some hints of intelligent sentient life like a glitter or spark you see out of the corner of your eyes or blinking eyes (1 2 or 3 or more lol) staring at you and when you look in that direction they disappear, or a shadow that seems to follow you but when you look around it vanishes (or multiple shadows depending on the number of suns) as well as ordinary life like birdlike creatures flying high up in the skies, making audible cries when they see you, or a howling that sounds like a wolf at sunset or moonrise.  I also want to see creatures swimming in the sea like fishes and perhaps some hints of something larger and more dangerous that must be avoided at all costs (with tentacles or teeth or both) as well as more friendly creatures that want to help us and are curious about us.
I also want to see weather be simulated- it can be done- just see Yowindow.  You could simulate the weather all over Earth to begin with using weather data like Yowindow does and then it would show it raining where its currently raining, snowing, windy, sunny, partly cloudy, etc.
 
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Astrobiology in Space Engine

28 Dec 2018 12:36

Thank you!
 
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Astrobiology in Space Engine

28 Dec 2018 12:39

(It was referred to Stellarator btw)
 
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Astrobiology in Space Engine

28 Dec 2018 17:54

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post Yes and I really dont like the term "game" being used for SE, it's a universe simulator like Starry Night or Celestia.  
As far as simulating life, I'd like to see structures rather than actually animated life.  It leaves something to the imagination.  Nothing wrong with showing stuff like trees and grassland and etc (photosynthesis in different colors like we have discussed) but also things like floating cities, and towers made of sparkling crystal but mysteriously empty and quiet with long winding passages and dark dreary dungeons and marvelous new forms of technology and even cities inside transparent domes, but all mysteriously abandoned.  But perhaps some hints of intelligent sentient life like a glitter or spark you see out of the corner of your eyes or blinking eyes (1 2 or 3 or more lol) staring at you and when you look in that direction they disappear, or a shadow that seems to follow you but when you look around it vanishes (or multiple shadows depending on the number of suns) as well as ordinary life like birdlike creatures flying high up in the skies, making audible cries when they see you, or a howling that sounds like a wolf at sunset or moonrise.  I also want to see creatures swimming in the sea like fishes and perhaps some hints of something larger and more dangerous that must be avoided at all costs (with tentacles or teeth or both) as well as more friendly creatures that want to help us and are curious about us.

All well and good, but why say this should be a scientific simulator when what you have described is basically what NMS did (poorly), which was a purely fictional game. I very much found NMS to have strong anime/minecraft vibes to it. The lack of realism and attention to pure scientific detail was jarring. For the record, I would also like to clear up the fact that I do not own NMS - I experienced it via a friend's computer when I crashed at their place. They invited me to try out the their new game (NMS) and I did. I played about 4 hours worth of it and it got old fast. As somebody who either a) likes well-conceived and ORIGINAL sci-fi, or b) enjoys hard sci-fi, NMS was a bitter disappointment. It was Minecraft in space. More or less kids stuff or or own personal preference. As Mosfet stated, the disappointment stems from the grandiose claims of the devs.

I enjoy and respect SE, however, because I approached it from a simulation-perspective. It impressed me with its adherence to hard science (yes, including warp-drives, I mean, they aren't impossible under known physics - unlike NMS's planet clusters) and the obvious passion and time that went into it by Vladimir. I think it is unrivaled in it's thoroughness of depicting the universe via all mediums - visually and otherwise. Along the same lines, it was clever of Vladimir to make a distinction between the 'game' aspect of SE as outlined in the Gameplay concept topic from the pure 'simulator' function. Even then, the single-player game will blur the line between what is a game for entertainment's sake and a true simulator -  sort of like how Sid Meier's Civilizations did. I mean, it is still a game, but you could learn some stuff.

So, I hope for something as tricky and challenging as aliens, their addition to the game (or simulator) should be applied very carefully and with great awareness to recent scientific thoughts. Without this, it may end up as cliched or comical.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post I also want to see weather be simulated- it can be done- just see Yowindow.  You could simulate the weather all over Earth to begin with using weather data like Yowindow does and then it would show it raining where its currently raining, snowing, windy, sunny, partly cloudy, etc.

I have exuberantly suggested this many times on the forum. It would just be so awesome! Being in the eye of the storm on a gas-giant or super-earth, or feeling the glass rain of a carbon-planet. Or just imagine hearing the gentle drizzle of pure H2O rain on a young Earth-like world while listening to the waves lap on the shores of a fresh continent would be a dream come true. it is a pity that SE could never get on the Cryengine platform, as theirweather simulations are gorgeous and frighteningly photorealistic.  
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Astrobiology in Space Engine

29 Dec 2018 00:34

Stellarator wrote:
A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post Yes and I really dont like the term "game" being used for SE, it's a universe simulator like Starry Night or Celestia.  
As far as simulating life, I'd like to see structures rather than actually animated life.  It leaves something to the imagination.  Nothing wrong with showing stuff like trees and grassland and etc (photosynthesis in different colors like we have discussed) but also things like floating cities, and towers made of sparkling crystal but mysteriously empty and quiet with long winding passages and dark dreary dungeons and marvelous new forms of technology and even cities inside transparent domes, but all mysteriously abandoned.  But perhaps some hints of intelligent sentient life like a glitter or spark you see out of the corner of your eyes or blinking eyes (1 2 or 3 or more lol) staring at you and when you look in that direction they disappear, or a shadow that seems to follow you but when you look around it vanishes (or multiple shadows depending on the number of suns) as well as ordinary life like birdlike creatures flying high up in the skies, making audible cries when they see you, or a howling that sounds like a wolf at sunset or moonrise.  I also want to see creatures swimming in the sea like fishes and perhaps some hints of something larger and more dangerous that must be avoided at all costs (with tentacles or teeth or both) as well as more friendly creatures that want to help us and are curious about us.

All well and good, but why say this should be a scientific simulator when what you have described is basically what NMS did (poorly), which was a purely fictional game. I very much found NMS to have strong anime/minecraft vibes to it. The lack of realism and attention to pure scientific detail was jarring. For the record, I would also like to clear up the fact that I do not own NMS - I experienced it via a friend's computer when I crashed at their place. They invited me to try out the their new game (NMS) and I did. I played about 4 hours worth of it and it got old fast. As somebody who either a) likes well-conceived and ORIGINAL sci-fi, or b) enjoys hard sci-fi, NMS was a bitter disappointment. It was Minecraft in space. More or less kids stuff or or own personal preference. As Mosfet stated, the disappointment stems from the grandiose claims of the devs.

I enjoy and respect SE, however, because I approached it from a simulation-perspective. It impressed me with its adherence to hard science (yes, including warp-drives, I mean, they aren't impossible under known physics - unlike NMS's planet clusters) and the obvious passion and time that went into it by Vladimir. I think it is unrivaled in it's thoroughness of depicting the universe via all mediums - visually and otherwise. Along the same lines, it was clever of Vladimir to make a distinction between the 'game' aspect of SE as outlined in the Gameplay concept topic from the pure 'simulator' function. Even then, the single-player game will blur the line between what is a game for entertainment's sake and a true simulator -  sort of like how Sid Meier's Civilizations did. I mean, it is still a game, but you could learn some stuff.

So, I hope for something as tricky and challenging as aliens, their addition to the game (or simulator) should be applied very carefully and with great awareness to recent scientific thoughts. Without this, it may end up as cliched or comical.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post I also want to see weather be simulated- it can be done- just see Yowindow.  You could simulate the weather all over Earth to begin with using weather data like Yowindow does and then it would show it raining where its currently raining, snowing, windy, sunny, partly cloudy, etc.

I have exuberantly suggested this many times on the forum. It would just be so awesome! Being in the eye of the storm on a gas-giant or super-earth, or feeling the glass rain of a carbon-planet. Or just imagine hearing the gentle drizzle of pure H2O rain on a young Earth-like world while listening to the waves lap on the shores of a fresh continent would be a dream come true. it is a pity that SE could never get on the Cryengine platform, as theirweather simulations are gorgeous and frighteningly photorealistic.  

Yes, I am a big fan of hard sci fi like what Asimov, Clarke, Bova and others write also!  There is a difference between sci fi and fantasy and sci fi is actually something that is possible in the future- no matter how distant that future may be.  Thats why SE reminds me of a better version of Celestia, which was also a really great simulator, but didn't get updated nearly enough.  SE actually lets you experience a voyage through the universe similarly to what a great sci fi book that uses real science would allow.  Ever since I read the Foundation series growing up I wanted to simulate Golan Trevize's journeys in Foundation's Edge and Foundation and Earth and this is the only software I know that would allow that!  Asimov even predicted habitable planets being found in the Tau Ceti, Epsilon Eridani and Alpha/Proxima Centauri systems and we are now discovering planets there!
I can see SE in the future being able to model weather, might be a few years, but it's certainly doable and would be a very exciting addition to the program!  I think we've already discovered that snow falls on Mars and Saturn!
 
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Astrobiology in Space Engine

29 Dec 2018 02:31

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post Yes, I am a big fan of hard sci fi like what Asimov, Clarke, Bova and others write also!
Asimov even predicted habitable planets being found in the Tau Ceti, Epsilon Eridani and Alpha/Proxima Centauri systems and we are now discovering planets there!

Well, it remains to be seen whether or not those planets are habitable or not, but while we are on the subject, I thought I'd suggest this hard sci-fi novel series to you that I read recently called Children of a Dead Earth. I think you'll like it, as it reminded me of a good Clarke yarn: with some hard science behind the story, but also a bit of mystery... Anyway, well worth the time you spend reading it.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post I think we've already discovered that snow falls on Mars and Saturn!

And diamonds rain in Neptune's clouds! No, seriously, look it up if you don't believe me.

Anyway, how did the holidays go for you?
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Astrobiology in Space Engine

29 Dec 2018 08:41

Stellarator wrote:
I have exuberantly suggested this many times on the forum. It would just be so awesome! Being in the eye of the storm on a gas-giant or super-earth, or feeling the glass rain of a carbon-planet. Or just imagine hearing the gentle drizzle of pure H2O rain on a young Earth-like world while listening to the waves lap on the shores of a fresh continent would be a dream come true. it is a pity that SE could never get on the Cryengine platform, as theirweather simulations are gorgeous and frighteningly photorealistic

I think what you're looking for is Star Citizen which was initially based on CryEngine and is now using a fork of it Amazon made called Lumberyard. It just recently got a major update which added its first planet Hurston (and its moons). It's an alpha build but it is playable and we get quarterly content updates.

Three hours of gameplay in the current build:

A look at what's in now and to come in 2019:
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Astrobiology in Space Engine

29 Dec 2018 23:38

jadestar wrote:
Source of the post  Star Citizen which was initially based on CryEngine and is now using a fork of it Amazon made called Lumberyard. It just recently got a major update which added its first planet Hurston (and its moons). It's an alpha build but it is playable and we get quarterly content updates.

I bought Star Citizen a while back and have been playing it on and off. Yes, the visuals are stunning, but it's game concept isn't terribly original, just very ambitious. My impression of it was essentially Elite: Dangerous mixed with the first-person shooter feel of Destiny: 2 with some Mass Effect rpg elements thrown in.  Certainly fun though, and it would be interesting to see how far they will take it. Cloud Imperium seems to have quite a following now (I mean, the game was basically funded by the fans), so an official release should be coming pretty soon. Long time in the waiting, to say the least :).
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Astrobiology in Space Engine

30 Dec 2018 01:41

Pretty well, now getting ready for New Years!  Thanks for the book recommendation- I'm always looking for good books to read!  Haven't we detected water in the atmosphere of a planet? I think it's 51 Pegasi B if I remember correctly?  And in some of the planets in the Trappist-1 system!

Diamond rain sounds fascinating!  That means Neptune has significant quantities of carbon!  I wonder if that is in any way related to stars made of diamonds (also theorized to exist).

I might have to get my hands on some of these games too- Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous? I haven't played ANY of them!
 
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Astrobiology in Space Engine

30 Dec 2018 03:26

Stellarator wrote:
jadestar wrote:
Source of the post  Star Citizen which was initially based on CryEngine and is now using a fork of it Amazon made called Lumberyard. It just recently got a major update which added its first planet Hurston (and its moons). It's an alpha build but it is playable and we get quarterly content updates.

I bought Star Citizen a while back and have been playing it on and off. Yes, the visuals are stunning, but it's game concept isn't terribly original, just very ambitious. My impression of it was essentially E.lite: Dangerous mixed with the first-person shooter feel of Destiny: 2 with some Mass Effect rpg elements thrown in.  Certainly fun though, and it would be interesting to see how far they will take it.
Cloud Imperium seems to have quite a following now (I mean, the game was basically funded by the fans), so an official release should be coming pretty soon. Long time in the waiting, to say the least :).

It was recently announced that the single-player campaign Squadron 42 will be released in 2020. The multiplayer Star Citizen will come some time after that but it is going to be more like World of Warcraft in that all the planned content and star systems will not be there immediately on release but added over time through quarterly patches and server side hotfixes. So it will be a rolling release sometime after SQ42s release.

Also as you already know the MMO Star Citizen will be an open universe, there is not end-game state so people will be free to be whatever they want (the majority of people who backed the game, when polled said they plan to be explorers). Even now, there are so many stunning views to be had and the scale of the planets and moons is amazing, I see something new on each visit.

Beyond the visual aspect one of the things which won me over was the attention to detail on the astronomical side. It turns out they regularly consult with an astrophysicist at Science & Entertainment Exchange so they plan to model a lot of things scientifically. A good example is the ARK Starmap where the spectral class of each star is indicated: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/starmap They have said this will have an effect on the color of vegetation on habitable planets in those systems. They also have not gone down the NMS road of every planet having life of some sort, most do not and the circumstellar habitable zone as indicated on the starmap actually matters. Also one gets a sense of just how vast space is, even within the one star system which is playable now. Ships only go at maximum 0.2-0.4c so travel time between two planets can take 10-15 mins in some cases since the distance covered is real, there are no cut scenes. Some friends of mine proved this by slow flying a ship at 1300 m/s to a space station from the surface of the moon it orbited. They'll use Einstein-Rosen bridges (wormholes) called Jump Points to facilitate travel between systems.

To A-L-E-X and anyone else looking at it, just know its still in alpha and thus full of bugs so only buy it if you're ok play testing it in that state.
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Astrobiology in Space Engine

30 Dec 2018 23:24

jadestar wrote:
Source of the post Beyond the visual aspect one of the things which won me over was the attention to detail on the astronomical side. It turns out they regularly consult with an astrophysicist at Science & Entertainment Exchange so they plan to model a lot of things scientifically. A good example is the ARK Starmap where the spectral class of each star is indicated: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/starmap They have said this will have an effect on the color of vegetation on habitable planets in those systems. They also have not gone down the NMS road of every planet having life of some sort, most do not and the circumstellar habitable zone as indicated on the starmap actually matters. Also one gets a sense of just how vast space is, even within the one star system which is playable now. Ships only go at maximum 0.2-0.4c so travel time between two planets can take 10-15 mins in some cases since the distance covered is real, there are no cut scenes. Some friends of mine proved this by slow flying a ship at 1300 m/s to a space station from the surface of the moon it orbited. They'll use Einstein-Rosen bridges (wormholes) called Jump Points to facilitate travel between systems.

Yes, this makes me happy :). As I said, Star Citizen is not the most original of games - but it is one that definitely encapsulates best what makes a good space game, while at the same time downplaying those annoying and over-used sci-fi tropes. Let's hope they'll ditch the artificial gravity and humanoid aliens as well.
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Astrobiology in Space Engine

31 Dec 2018 01:45

Stellarator wrote:
jadestar wrote:
Source of the post Beyond the visual aspect one of the things which won me over was the attention to detail on the astronomical side. It turns out they regularly consult with an astrophysicist at Science & Entertainment Exchange so they plan to model a lot of things scientifically. A good example is the ARK Starmap where the spectral class of each star is indicated: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/starmap They have said this will have an effect on the color of vegetation on habitable planets in those systems. They also have not gone down the NMS road of every planet having life of some sort, most do not and the circumstellar habitable zone as indicated on the starmap actually matters. Also one gets a sense of just how vast space is, even within the one star system which is playable now. Ships only go at maximum 0.2-0.4c so travel time between two planets can take 10-15 mins in some cases since the distance covered is real, there are no cut scenes. Some friends of mine proved this by slow flying a ship at 1300 m/s to a space station from the surface of the moon it orbited. They'll use Einstein-Rosen bridges (wormholes) called Jump Points to facilitate travel between systems.

Yes, this makes me happy :). As I said, Star Citizen is not the most original of games - but it is one that definitely encapsulates best what makes a good space game, while at the same time downplaying those annoying and over-used sci-fi tropes. Let's hope they'll ditch the artificial gravity and humanoid aliens as well.

lol how did they employ artificial gravity?  You can scientifically simulate artificial gravity using the centrifugal force (lots of similarities between gravity and the centrifugal force, which is why I modeled how I picture spinning black holes after hurricanes- see the other thread :P)

I like the 0.2-0.4c limit on speed inside systems since (if we ever do) survive to be able to create traversable wormholes or the Alcubierre drive they will be far too disruptive to use inside systems, rather they would be used to bridge interstellar or intergalactic space.

I want to see those H-R diagrams since that is one of the reasons I use Starry Night Pro Plus, it makes it very easy to identify stars of unusual types which is what I'm usually trying to hunt down and later view by telescope and/or capture by camera.

FYI and this might be OT but oh well do any of these simulations model stellar proper motion? I need something that does that and cant wait for SE to implement it.  SNPP does already and I like going backwards in time and seeing that Thuban in Draco was the North Star during the building of the pyramids or in the distant future when we will have our brightest North Star which will be Vega in Lyra.
 
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Astrobiology in Space Engine

31 Dec 2018 07:39

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post FYI and this might be OT but oh well do any of these simulations model stellar proper motion? I need something that does that and cant wait for SE to implement it.  SNPP does already and I like going backwards in time and seeing that Thuban in Draco was the North Star during the building of the pyramids or in the distant future when we will have our brightest North Star which will be Vega in Lyra.

Is this modelling actual stellar movement? Or just the precession of the Earth's axis?
 
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Astrobiology in Space Engine

31 Dec 2018 18:53

I continued the conversation in the Video games thread.
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Astrobiology in Space Engine

01 Jan 2019 01:51

Mr. Abner wrote:
A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post FYI and this might be OT but oh well do any of these simulations model stellar proper motion? I need something that does that and cant wait for SE to implement it.  SNPP does already and I like going backwards in time and seeing that Thuban in Draco was the North Star during the building of the pyramids or in the distant future when we will have our brightest North Star which will be Vega in Lyra.

Is this modelling actual stellar movement? Or just the precession of the Earth's axis?

Actually both.  Sorry I should have been more clear.  I want to see what constellations and such will look like thousands of years in the past and in the future as well as modeling the precession of the earth's axis (and any other exoplanets that we have data on.)  As it currently is, does SE properly show what star patterns will look like from exoplanets orbiting known stars?  But doesn't yet account for stellar proper motion or precession does it?
I'll continue that part of the discussion in the VG thread.

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