Ultimate space simulation software

 
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General 0.9.9.0 Discussion

11 Oct 2018 00:43

Quarior wrote:
Source of the post but for people doesn’t yet a account, you can have Steam

I should add for those of you who don't know, Steam is FREE to download and install on your computer. All you need is to make an account with them and of course buy a game that uses Steam - and there are A LOT of good games that use Steam. SE on Steam is no biggie and to be honest unsurprising since many indie games are hosted on it.
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11 Oct 2018 07:52

I will use Steam, because:

- SE will be paid (don't worry donaters, you will receive a free key)
- Steam has a lot of benefits for me:
-- built-in DRM
-- file distribution service (do you remember size of the Solar system addons?)
-- auto-update feature which ease uploading updates for me and downloading for you
-- as someone mention, Steam has 70% of the game market, so why should I ignore it?
-- centralized payment collection and transaction service
-- workshop for mods, including paid ones (yes, mod authors can earn money!)
----- to distribute from the web site, I need to implement all the above myself. It is months of work for a whole programming team!
-- Steam also has many small features, some of which will be implemented in SE later: achievement, cards, etc.
-- Steam has its own marketing/advertising system, which will help with sales.
- Those who have HTC Vive needs Steam anyway, because OpenVR (driver for Vive) is a part of the Steam.

One of the reasons why SE updated are so rare is difficult distribution. I have to compile and upload installer to many mirrors and torrents. Then if some critical bug appears, I need to repeat this with patch, then write instruction how to install the patch (and nobody reads it anyway). This is why I tried to make SE release as polished as possible, fixing virtually all critical bugs. With Steam, I can upload tiny fixes every day, and no one will even notice that. Implementing auto update directly in SE requires, aside from programming work, powerful file distribution system, which will cost money. Steam provides this "for free" (well, not for free of course, Steam will take some fee from sales). Also I need some DRM/cd-key protection system in SE, which Steam also provides. And, of course, I need whole web store to make sales. Paypal provides such functionality, but this requires huge web programming work (I am C++/graphics programmer, web programming is alien territory for me).

For those who have no internet connection: hey, we are in 2018! I planning to implement web data streaming at some point: SE will download Earth/Mars/etc textures from web storage on demand, like Google Earth. Instead of installing 50 GB of texture addons, you will need just internet connection and few gigs of disk space for the cache. Streaming will not be limited by textures, GAIA star catalog contains 1.7 billion stars, and estimated SE database size is about 80 GB. Also, in future SE will have some tiny server where it will store user discoveries and names/descriptions they have to planets. And this is SE planetarium, online SE game is also in plans.
 
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11 Oct 2018 08:30

SpaceEngineer wrote:
I will use Steam, because:

- SE will be paid (don't worry donaters, you will receive a free key)
- Steam has a lot of benefits for me:
-- built-in DRM
-- file distribution service (do you remember size of the Solar system addons?)
-- auto-update feature which ease uploading updates for me and downloading for you
-- as someone mention, Steam has 70% of the game market, so why should I ignore it?
-- centralized payment collection and transaction service
-- workshop for mods, including paid ones (yes, mod authors can earn money!)
----- to distribute from the web site, I need to implement all the above myself. It is months of work for a whole programming team!
-- Steam also has many small features, some of which will be implemented in SE later: achievement, cards, etc.
-- Steam has its own marketing/advertising system, which will help with sales.
- Those who have HTC Vive needs Steam anyway, because OpenVR (driver for Vive) is a part of the Steam.

One of the reasons why SE updated are so rare is difficult distribution. I have to compile and upload installer to many mirrors and torrents. Then if some critical bug appears, I need to repeat this with patch, then write instruction how to install the patch (and nobody reads it anyway). This is why I tried to make SE release as polished as possible, fixing virtually all critical bugs. With Steam, I can upload tiny fixes every day, and no one will even notice that. Implementing auto update directly in SE requires, aside from programming work, powerful file distribution system, which will cost money. Steam provides this "for free" (well, not for free of course, Steam will take some fee from sales). Also I need some DRM/cd-key protection system in SE, which Steam also provides. And, of course, I need whole web store to make sales. Paypal provides such functionality, but this requires huge web programming work (I am C++/graphics programmer, web programming is alien territory for me).

For those who have no internet connection: hey, we are in 2018! I planning to implement web data streaming at some point: SE will download Earth/Mars/etc textures from web storage on demand, like Google Earth. Instead of installing 50 GB of texture addons, you will need just internet connection and few gigs of disk space for the cache. Streaming will not be limited by textures, GAIA star catalog contains 1.7 billion stars, and estimated SE database size is about 80 GB. Also, in future SE will have some tiny server where it will store user discoveries and names/descriptions they have to planets. And this is SE planetarium, online SE game is also in plans.


I will not use SE with internet connection.
I have limited hotspot and may end up using it for something else like download a large patch of another game(like no man's sky's patches they are pretty large like I downloaded one that is 9 gb!)
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11 Oct 2018 09:17

I have to say this. you rather want us to be tied to steam like a ball and chain for "Your" benefits? Thats suicide and very bad. release it on GOG too if you are going to go that route. Inall honesty.you have destroyed some of your loyal fans by going DRM and having it Paid.
 
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11 Oct 2018 09:26

Then I apologize for the noise.If it's paid then that's a different story. I was against Steam under the assumption that SE is still free. Since it's not it makes sense to use Steam or any other platform of your choice whatever the downsides,though there are benefits as well. Since you want DRM protection then GOG is out of the question. You are absolutely right that everyone should have internet today. My uncle is the only one I know who doesn't have it, because he's not interested, and it's expensive for him, but I'm not trying to make excuses. Again, I mentioned that because I thought it would be free, in which case I could simply download it from my computer and install it on his computer.
 
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11 Oct 2018 09:30

ZackG wrote:
I have to say this. you rather want us to be tied to steam like a ball and chain for "Your" benefits? Thats suicide and very bad. release it on GOG too if you are going to go that route. Inall honesty.you have destroyed some of your loyal fans by going DRM and having it Paid.


i feared that space engine was gonna have drm when I first saw it on steam greenlight and now that has become a reality.
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11 Oct 2018 10:43

I dont need to pay money to play a game if it was bad or a sham. if It was good I would buy it but not if its on a DRM platform like steam. This is just pure greed.
 
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11 Oct 2018 10:45

ZackG wrote:
I dont need to pay money to play a game if it was bad or a sham. if It was good I would buy it but not if its on a DRM platform like steam. This is just pure greed.


I would buy 990 but not with DRM in it.
Besides, doesn't spaceengineer realize that it's gonna get cracked anyway?
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11 Oct 2018 11:09

Vladimir has stated very clearly that he wants DRM protection. GOG doesn't have DRM protection as far as know, so it won't be released on it.
 
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11 Oct 2018 11:11

I am ending this conversation right now, as this thread is not the place to discuss this.  I have removed posts from certain users.

So before I begin this long drawn out pointless response that I doubt anyone is going to bother to read or consider, and will just continue on with their own view point; let me point out that no one on this site or in the community, such as BambusDude, is a representative for Vladimir or why he is going down the route of selling SpaceEngine.

ZackG wrote:
Source of the post you rather want us to be tied to steam like a ball and chain for "Your" benefits?


There are larger things at play here that go beyond you, myself, or any single individual's preference for platforms.  Steam is the first platform, not the last.  Your concerns have been noted by individuals from the beta testing group, translators, and even myself and HarbingerDawn.  

Nothing is set in stone, but SE is going to be sold

ZackG wrote:
Source of the post Thats suicide and very bad. release it on GOG too if you are going to go that route.


Other platforms are being discussed, but it will launch on Steam first.

ZackG wrote:
Source of the post Inall honesty.you have destroyed some of your loyal fans by going DRM and having it Paid.


The way I see this kind of response is more of a reflection of the individual's emotional response posting it, rather than a real representation of what is really happening.  

The current DRM in SpaceEngine for Steam is DRM built in to work with the Steam platform, and the very basic protection.  Vladimir is well aware that it is not entirely secure doing this.

Regarding paying for SpaceEngine, please tell me how this is a negative?  Because you don't receive something for free?  Vladimir has dedicated himself to working on SE, a passion project really, for a few years now and the donations don't cover his basic needs half the time.  

You can have the attitude that things should be free when told they will be free, but circumstances change.  You didn't fund SE, you didn't code SE for thousands of hours, you didn't invest time or work into it, and I don't mean to offend by this but you have no right to tell someone they can't sell something they made that they love for money to survive.

This is really a reflection of your own character, and not Vladimir or anyone supporting SE.

ZackG wrote:
Source of the post I dont need to pay money to play a game if it was bad or a sham. if It was good I would buy it but not if its on a DRM platform like steam.


Steam is where it is launching.  Steam is a minimal service in the background that does almost nothing, gives you extra benefits with community integration, sharing screenshots, art, and for things like SE allowing for greater use of the program like achievements/workshop/DLC.  

With Steam, SE will benefit from that platform.  

ZackG wrote:
Source of the post This is just pure greed.


Your attitude and responses are pure greed, there is no greed in Vladimir trying to keep his project going and make enough to put food on the table.  SpaceEngine is not yours, your concerns are noted, and many of us have discussed these issues with Vladimir and it is an ongoing issue.

If you don't want SpaceEngine on Steam and don't want to use Steam, and if it only launches on DRM platforms, then that is your choice.

Macronicus wrote:
Source of the post Besides, doesn't spaceengineer realize that it's gonna get cracked anyway?


I am going to make this very clear to everyone here on the subject of cracking.  

We are not talking Denuvo levels of DRM here, we are taking basic Steam integration with a simple check on whether you own it on the account you are using.

If SE launches on Steam and DRM only platforms and you don't want to pay for it because of DRM, that is fine.

If you, or anyone else, cracks SpaceEngine, openly brags about it, talks about it, regardless of why you did it, you will be banned from these forums, the Discord, the Steam community, and from the subreddit.
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General 0.9.9.0 Discussion

11 Oct 2018 11:16

SpaceEngineer wrote:
Source of the post -- workshop for mods, including paid ones (yes, mod authors can earn money!)

I thought steam removed support for paid mods/addons, is it coming back?
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11 Oct 2018 11:30

Yeah, it was removed a few years ago.
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11 Oct 2018 15:10

SpaceEngineer wrote:
-- built-in DRM

DRM Like I said in the past doesnt work. and sadly is going lead to illegal matters with the software. If you just wanted a serial number only thing, I would take a look at GOG. GOG has their games tied to accounts. Which means that if someone bought SE there, they can download it from the game library. No one else can see it or access it without logging on.

SpaceEngineer wrote:
For those who have no internet connection: hey, we are in 2018! I planning to implement web data streaming at some point: SE will download Earth/Mars/etc textures from web storage on demand, like Google Earth. Instead of installing 50 GB of texture addons, you will need just internet connection and few gigs of disk space for the cache. Streaming will not be limited by textures, GAIA star catalog contains 1.7 billion stars, and estimated SE database size is about 80 GB. Also, in future SE will have some tiny server where it will store user discoveries and names/descriptions they have to planets. And this is SE planetarium, online SE game is also in plans.

Unfortunately there are people out there who sadly dont make enough money to get broadband internet access and from what I saw, 56k still does exist. Not to mention that basic users have internet that is very slow access like in Verizon. I dont mind downloading the large packages and saving it to a hard drive, because believe it or not, I have a 3TB hard drive  :lol:

I have been playing the sim for a while since 2011 and I will say that its going on a good path in graphics and interaction is concerned and I hope it succeeds.
 
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11 Oct 2018 16:10

Steam allows offline installation. You can just start downloading the game, then abort it, copy the whole game folder from another computer, then start steam and play.
 
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11 Oct 2018 16:19

SpaceEngineer wrote:
Steam allows offline installation. You can just start downloading the game, then abort it, copy the whole game folder from another computer, then start steam and play.

Yes but you require the client to launch it. Thats what bothers me. My belief is that when you buy a game, that copy is your and you can back it up in a CD or a thumb drive in case you have to reinstall Windows. with Steam, you need to download the client and download said game And to top that off, they reserve the right to terminate your account for no reason or warning. And you are basically "renting" the game under their whim.

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