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SpaaaaaaceMouse
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SpaceMouse's (less fantasy) Enterprise

05 Apr 2017 09:51

As this will most likely be in SpaceEngine when it's finished, I thought this was a good place to get some feedback. Since i haven't gotten a ton from KSP's forums.
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General layout is meant to be crew equipment and science labs in front, habitat ring in the middle, upper and lower docking bays for SSTOs (because we can't teleport people), Fusion reactor and drive system then possibly a deploy-able physical heat / aero-braking shield in back. I'm open to ideas though.

The concept is meant to be a Enterprise a little more based in reality. Please provide any feedback you have. I'd like some opinions. :)
Also, this is a fairly early render. It's basically just a shape layout.
Last edited by SpaaaaaaceMouse on 05 Apr 2017 14:20, edited 1 time in total.
 
SpaaaaaaceMouse
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05 Apr 2017 10:33

Modders like to reserve the 2nd post. Seems like a good idea.
 
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problemecium
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05 Apr 2017 13:47

I like it! It's good seeing a realistic warpship concept that isn't the IXS Enterprise for a change.
How are you planning on doing gravity? Does the "head" rotate, or are you going to add rotating sections?
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SpaaaaaaceMouse
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05 Apr 2017 14:17

It's not terribly obvious on this render but, between where the star-drive tapers downand the 'saucer', there's a rotating habitat section. Many people seem to think by the time we're at the technological point where we can physically warp space, generating gravity would be relatively simple.
Even if you can though, How do you balance the ship? If you can generate gravity the ship would fall down from it too, unless half was designed to fall down and the bottom half flipped to fall up.

I like the IXS, but there are details about it that irk me. the 'saucer' is trying to hard to look like the sci-fi enterprise and, while it's better than most trek it's still a hugely inefficient usage of space.

General layout is meant to be crew equipment and science labs in front, habitat ring in the middle, upper and lower docking bays for SSTOs (because we can't teleport people), Fusion reactor and drive system then possibly a deploy-able physical heat / aero-braking shield in back. I'm open to ideas though.
 
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DoctorOfSpace
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05 Apr 2017 16:40

problemecium wrote:
Source of the post It's good seeing a realistic warpship concept that isn't the IXS Enterprise for a change.


Most of the ships made for SE with warp rings are more realistic than the IXS Enterprise.

SpaaaaaaceMouse wrote:
Source of the post The concept is meant to be a Enterprise a little more based in reality. Please provide any feedback you have. I'd like some opinions.


I think it looks pretty good, though I wouldn't consider split rings more realistic.  From what I could understand from all the papers about warp drives it would be required that one has a full ring around the ship.

SpaaaaaaceMouse wrote:
Source of the post Many people seem to think by the time we're at the technological point where we can physically warp space, generating gravity would be relatively simple.


Those people don't really have an understanding on how the warp drive would function, not to say that I or anyone really does either. It is a completely different challenge to create gravity for a habitat and a warp field due to how the ring around the ship creates the field.

SpaaaaaaceMouse wrote:
Source of the post Even if you can though, How do you balance the ship? If you can generate gravity the ship would fall down from it too, unless half was designed to fall down and the bottom half flipped to fall up.


Star Trek, and other scifi, works on the principle of magic. In reality the field would have to be spherical so flat submarine/boat like decks wouldn't work.
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SpaaaaaaceMouse
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05 Apr 2017 18:37

DoctorOfSpace wrote:
Most of the ships made for SE with warp rings are more realistic than the IXS Enterprise.

I think it looks pretty good, though I wouldn't consider split rings more realistic.  From what I could understand from all the papers about warp drives it would be required that one has a full ring around the ship.

Those people don't really have an understanding on how the warp drive would function, not to say that I or anyone really does either.  It is a completely different challenge to create gravity for a habitat and a warp field due to how the ring around the ship creates the field.

Star Trek, and other scifi, works on the principle of magic.  In reality the field would have to be spherical so flat submarine/boat like decks wouldn't work.

I agree. I made a reasonably close approximation with the built in ship editor.

Gah. I was afraid someone was gonna say that. 3/4? It looks so much cooler this way. :D

As i understand it anyway, The 'warp drive' is currently a glorified math problem since we know of no way to generate the negative mass required to actually do it. Everything's gotta start somewhere though

I've had this thought before.
 
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05 Apr 2017 19:08

SpaaaaaaceMouse wrote:
Source of the post Gah. I was afraid someone was gonna say that. 3/4? It looks so much cooler this way. :D

I am not implying you should change it, whatever you want to do can be explained away.  When it comes to warp drives you can always just claim that the partial rings create the effect of a full ring through some form of magic technology.  You could even do this without having any rings, so long as the rings exist in some virtual context if you wanted to claim it was realistic. 
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05 Apr 2017 23:41

Actually even full-rings can be considered un-realistic since we didn't proved it is possible (also because these rings never cover the whole ship with the bubble).  I've personally designed spaceships for years while I was bored at school, and... well, there is no way to make a completely realistic ship, trust me.  :)
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SpaaaaaaceMouse
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06 Apr 2017 00:09

While it would be rather big news for me to have missed, Has there been any talk as to how we might, alternatively go about generating a wormhole? Since I've recently heard some talk that might be more realistic than 'magic space wave rings'.
 
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06 Apr 2017 00:15

Salvo wrote:
Source of the post Actually even full-rings can be considered un-realistic since we didn't proved it is possible


It isn't about being possible it is about what the math says and the math suggests there has to be a ring around the craft. The ring is what allows the bubble to form evenly.

Salvo wrote:
Source of the post (also because these rings never cover the whole ship with the bubble)


They don't have to cover the whole ship, just the outer edge of the ship so that the ship is encased inside of what is creating the bubble.

SpaaaaaaceMouse wrote:
Source of the post While it would be rather big news for me to have missed, Has there been any talk as to how we might, alternatively go about generating a wormhole?


Nobody really knows but if you are curious as to current experiments and research into wormholes and warp drives I recommend reading into some of the things proposed by Eric W. Davis
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Er ... blications
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SpaaaaaaceMouse
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09 Apr 2017 22:46

More fiddling. (turned off he radiators on this render) Added full rings back, apparently a warp ring wouldn't work the other way, Changed the engine assembly to look a little like the impulse drive on TOS ship, added fuel tanks for.... Something. Added a 'probe' launcher on the side. I also made the SSTO bay slightly taller. I'm kind of getting a idea for what i want it to look like but i could still go for opinions.
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09 Apr 2017 23:07

SpaaaaaaceMouse wrote:
Source of the post apparently a warp ring wouldn't work the other way

I like full rings, but you didn't have to change it :)

SpaaaaaaceMouse wrote:
Source of the post Changed the engine assembly to look a little like the impulse drive on TOS ship, added fuel tanks for.... Something.


What does the engine from behind look like?
SpaaaaaaceMouse wrote:
Source of the post I'm kind of getting a idea for what i want it to look like but i could still go for opinions.

Clue us into this idea and someone might be able to help
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SpaaaaaaceMouse
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10 Apr 2017 07:04

DoctorOfSpace wrote:
I like full rings, but you didn't have to change it :)

What does the engine from behind look like?

Clue us into this idea and someone might be able to help

It's easier to lop-off half the ring than remake it constantly anyway.

Right now like most of it its mostly just a cone placeholder. It will be a fusion or perhaps antimatter drive eventually. The rearmost of the ship i was originally going to do as a heat shield or something. Not sure what I'm going to do with it now as i think I've decided the heat shields going on the front.
You know, its been bugging me since the beginning, since it looks like reactionless thrust is going to be a thing, is there even any POINT to bringing along a giant heavy fuel supply and fusion rocket?

Never been all that great at conveying my ideas from how they randomly float through my head. The only major thing i want to do is figure out how to integrate some kind of particle collector. for antimatter/matter. Also need to put a magnetic field generator on the front and rear and make it look like a spaceship and not a random collection of geometric shapes.

Multi-quotes are kinda annoying on this forum. lol
 
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10 Apr 2017 17:15

SpaaaaaaceMouse wrote:
Source of the post is there even any POINT to bringing along a giant heavy fuel supply and fusion rocket?


I haven't seen anything about reactionless thrust that sounds legit, so I would say yes.  Even if the EM drive or other propulsion systems are made they still have an energy requirement and very low output, so a fusion or antimatter drive is a better option.

SpaaaaaaceMouse wrote:
Source of the post The only major thing i want to do is figure out how to integrate some kind of particle collector.


Steal from Star Trek and cram on a large, or a couple large, bussard collectors.  Not sure how you would add them without conflicting with the rest of the design.
I was sketching out some rough ideas on Antimatter reactors, storage, and collection parts for the SE ships, I didn't get very far though.

SpaaaaaaceMouse wrote:
Source of the post  Also need to put a magnetic field generator on the front and rear and make it look like a spaceship and not a random collection of geometric shapes.


Could do it with 2 thin toroidal rings, maybe give them the look of copper, wrapped around the front and one near the back.  Have them sorta pressed into the hull to add a bit of detail.

SpaaaaaaceMouse wrote:
Source of the post Multi-quotes are kinda annoying on this forum.


It may be, but its easier to reply to specific sections of a post, also a habit I am not willing to break.
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SpaaaaaaceMouse
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10 Apr 2017 17:43

DoctorOfSpace wrote:
I haven't seen anything about reactionless thrust that sounds legit, so I would say yes.  Even if the EM drive or other propulsion systems are made they still have an energy requirement and very low output, so a fusion or antimatter drive is a better option.

Steal from Star Trek and cram on a large, or a couple large, bussard collectors.  Not sure how you would add them without conflicting with the rest of the design.
I was sketching out some rough ideas on Antimatter reactors, storage, and collection parts for the SE ships, I didn't get very far though.

Could do it with 2 thin toroidal rings, maybe give them the look of copper, wrapped around the front and one near the back.  Have them sorta pressed into the hull to add a bit of detail.

I am of the differing opinion here. While there's plenty of reason to be skeptical. no-one seems to have dis-prooven it yet sooooo...
Much of the realism aspect I'm basing on what I've learned from the Kerbal Space Program Interstallar mod that has done the math for most of these far fetched (but plauable) systems. I'm probably looking at a 25-50GW reactor of some kind, primarily since it's enough to power a warp drive. It also provides enough ooph to make electric thrusters not useless. Alternatively, despite substantially lower thrust i was thinking of possibly a VASIMR system since it can be fueled with virtually anything that could be collected in-situ, perhaps from a gas giant.

I may put them on the rear and tie them into the engine/ reactor assembly. I originally wanted to put them on the front to look a bit more like classic trek, but that seems increasingly impractical.
It would be cool to see any pics.

I was going to take inspiration from a BBC sci-fi docudrama thing I watched a while back that used a similar system, for a trip around our solar system. I can't remember the name offhand. Last time i looked for pics of a artificial magnetic field generator i had less than great luck. That's similar to what i remember though.

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