The Future of Humanity & Intelligent life in the universe

A-L-E-X · 12 Apr 2017 19:38

DoctorOfSpace wrote:
Continued from: viewtopic.php?t=62&start=60#p5919

Most of the singular issues you point out could be contributors in the long term, but many are not really issues at all.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post The planet's sixth mass extinction is underway and it's because of human overpopulation crowding out the rest of the species on the planet and altering the balance.

I don't agree with overpopulation. While there is local overpopulation and poor resource distribution, we are nowhere near the carrying capacity of the Earth. When I mention population increase as a contributor, I mean only in regards to the number of ways a technology can be misused and how devastating a mistake could be.

Nick Bostrom's example about nuclear weapons applies
suppose it had turned out that there was some technological technique that allowed you to make a nuclear weapon by baking sand in a microwave oven or something like that. If it had turned out that way then where would we be now? Presumably once that discovery had been made civilization would have been doomed.

Future and near future technologies will put equally dangerous capabilities in the hands of thousands, hundreds of thousands, and eventually millions of people. Advanced 3D printers, biological printers, and perhaps eventual nanofabricators will give people incredible powers over their environment.

It seems almost inevitable to me that even with proper safety nets in place someone will use these technologies to develop their own WMDs.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post rising rates of various illnesses is actually indicative of that happening.

Humanity is also fairly close to curing most diseases, big changes are happening in the biotech field. I don't see this as being a cause of human extinction.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post Incidentally our food and fresh water supply isn't in such good shape either.

Vertical farms, lab grown meats, genetically engineered crops, and breakthroughs in desalination are currently happening. It is only a matter of a few years before these things start becoming more mainstream. The idea of a water crisis on a planet that is over 70% water is absurd, it is inevitable that desalination will become economically viable.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post because the vast majority of our food comes from about half a dozen sources, and if even one of those collapses, we're going to be in really bad shape.

Poorer nations would be but most developed nations have excess food storage for themselves. Unless there is a horrific environmental collapse this is not a huge concern.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post As for fresh water and yet another reason NOT to consume meat (besides the problems of antibiotics and hormones, and how animals get treated on conventional farms and the fact that meat farming significantly contributes to climate change) is the fact that meat farming uses up a significant amount of fresh water.

Same thing applies as I said before, water is only an issue because we make it an issue. Desalination will happen, it already is happening, and there won't be a water problem.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post I'm not even going to get into the dangers of corporate monopolization a la Monsanto or any of the other issues we face due to collusion between multinational corporations in terms of the dumping of toxic waste and its cover up. This occurs across a wide range of industries, from the fossil fuel industry, to the pharmaceutical industry, to agriculture and beyond.

This is something I would agree is a problem, but current advancements will also help to correct these issues.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post What are your thoughts about AI actually helping our long term survival and us being able to use it for space travel?

Unlikely. I used to agree with the Kurzweil notion of AI being benevolent and growing beyond it's programming until I went for my degree in biology. I came to the conclusion that any notions of going beyond your programming is impossible, you are limited by your programming because you are your programming.

Human systems have always been imitations of nature, while a designer can design better tools nature has had a few hundred billion years head start on things like brains. We humans only function in the way we do because of conflicting goals, we have to rationalize a compromise for these goals, any AI we design with current or even near future level tech will probably only have one or two goals and inevitably those goals will not align with ours. I see it as almost inevitable that humanity in one way or another will go extinct from AI, either by merger (optimistically unlikely), or incidental as a byproduct of the AI just doing what it was going to do. There are more ways for AI to go wrong than for it to go right.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post The idea of placing human consciousness inside bodies that can last indefinitely has always intrigued me- however that won't help allay the human overpopulation problem any.

It would solve any overpopulation problem if you could do it efficiently, but we are nowhere near an overpopulation crisis.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post We have to get to ZPG somehow, but if we do

Population right now is declining in all developed nations, outside of immigration. I see no problems with curing aging now and giving people indefinite lifespans. The resources to sustain around 12bil humans already exist and it wouldn't take much to at least guarantee people the basics.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post That and portable and controllable fusion

This ties into what I said regarding inevitable destruction. Humanity right now could survive another 50 years or another couple million years but the inevitable end is extinction. We will go extinct by either changing ourselves or accidentally destroying ourselves.

I currently lean more towards self destruction, but that may be long after I am dead. Lots of people often mention solving the energy problem or heat death problem by breaking physics, this applies
► Show Spoiler

Thanks for the detailed post, Doc! I refer to overpopulation in the sense that crowding too many people into a certain area creates pollution which creates disease. In inner cities we have higher rates of asthma, cancer, etc- because of this. A Stanford study a few years ago also linked autism and adhd to car pollutants that are absorbed by the womb during pregnancy and affect the brain of the developing fetus. I read that the ideal population of the planet is around 1 billion.
I like genetically engineered food but not at the behest of monopolization by large corrupt corporations like Monsanto. I want you to look over a few articles from the NY Times that I've been reading.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/14/busi ... .html?_r=0

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/30/busi ... short.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/15/busi ... -deal.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/11/busi ... short.html

I like nonprofit GMO developers not companies like Monsanto which have a bad corrupt history of destroying the environment. This here is a prime example of misuse of technology in search of profit that you were referring to and covering up the toxic nature of glyphosate and using even more toxic pesticides to cover up its shortfallings.
I have been waiting for desalination myself- I thought it was pretty ridiculous that the California drought was such a big problem (until recently) with them bordering on the largest ocean on the planet!
The programming is the brain though right? What if we kept that programming intact but just gave it a much more durable body- one that is free of aging. We would not be improving the processor, but we would be giving it a better operating environment. Or do you think that might have its side effects too?
Do you think that space colonization, freeing ourselves from the closed system of Earth is the one path we have that avoids self destruction? Spreading ourselves out would seem to be the best way to avoid it- not keeping all our eggs in one basket so to speak/type ;-)

When you mentioned humanity being an imitation (actually a part of) nature, it reminded me of something fascinating- slime mold networks actually resemble human architecture like subway systems. Our farms also resemble the kind of farms that ants build (they even have their own cows- aphids!) We have several intelligent animal species on our planet that are self-aware, and understand abstract concepts like zero and that when they look in the mirror they are seeing their reflection, invent their own words, create and use tools and even take care of their injured and bury their dead- elephants, dolphins, african grey parrots, dogs, bonobos, chimps, etc. They have around the intelligence level of a 5 year old human.

Out of curiosity, do you watch the series The Expanse? Fascinating series about solar system colonization.

[color=#ffffff]Negative mass’ created at Washington State University[/color]
[color=#ffffff]PULLMAN, Wash. – Washington State University physicists have created a fluid with negative mass, which is exactly what it sounds like. Push it, and unlike every physical object in the world we know, it doesn’t accelerate in the direction it was pushed. It accelerates backwards.

The phenomenon is rarely created in laboratory conditions and can be used to explore some of the more challenging concepts of the cosmos, said Michael Forbes, a WSU assistant professor of physics and astronomy and an affiliate assistant professor at the University of Washington. The research appears today in the journal Physical Review Letters, where it is featured as an “Editor’s Suggestion.”

Hypothetically, matter can have negative mass in the same sense that an electric charge can be either negative or positive. People rarely think in these terms, and our everyday world sees only the positive aspects of Isaac Newton’s Second Law of Motion, in which a force is equal to the mass of an object times its acceleration, or F=ma.

In other words, if you push an object, it will accelerate in the direction you’re pushing it. Mass will accelerate in the direction of the force.

“That’s what most things that we’re used to do,” said Forbes, hinting at the bizarreness to come. “With negative mass, if you push something, it accelerates toward you.”

Conditions for negative mass

He and his colleagues created the conditions for negative mass by cooling rubidium atoms to just a hair above absolute zero, creating what is known as a Bose-Einstein condensate. In this state, predicted by Satyendra Nath Bose and Albert Einstein, particles move extremely slowly and, following the principles of quantum mechanics, behave like waves. They also synchronize and move in unison as what is known as a superfluid, which flows without losing energy.

Led by Peter Engels, WSU professor of physics and astronomy, researchers on the sixth floor of Webster Hall created these conditions by using lasers to slow the particles, making them colder, and allowing hot, high energy particles to escape like steam, cooling the material further.

The lasers trapped the atoms as if they were in a bowl measuring less than a hundred microns across. At this point, the rubidium superfluid has regular mass. Breaking the bowl will allow the rubidium to rush out, expanding as the rubidium in the center pushes outward.

To create negative mass, the researchers applied a second set of lasers that kicked the atoms back and forth and changed the way they spin. Now when the rubidium rushes out fast enough, if behaves as if it has negative mass.

“Once you push, it accelerates backwards,” said Forbes, who acted as a theorist analyzing the system. “It looks like the rubidium hits an invisible wall.”[/color]
[color=#ffffff]Avoiding underlying defects

The technique used by the WSU researchers avoids some of the underlying defects encountered in previous attempts to understand negative mass.

“What’s a first here is the exquisite control we have over the nature of this negative mass, without any other complications” said Forbes. Their research clarifies, in terms of negative mass, similar behavior seen in other systems.

This heightened control gives researchers a new tool to engineer experiments to study analogous physics in astrophysics, like neutron stars, and cosmological phenomena like black holes and dark energy, where experiments are impossible.

“It provides another environment to study a fundamental phenomenon that is very peculiar,” Forbes said.[/color]

13 Apr 2017 03:15

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post I want you to look over a few articles from the NY Times that I've been reading.

I am not going to have a response to you for a while. NYT isn't something I am going to trust so I will need to find some more information from other sources. If/when I can find more information I will get back to you.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post I have been waiting for desalination myself- I thought it was pretty ridiculous that the California drought was such a big problem (until recently) with them bordering on the largest ocean on the planet!

Problem is it needs to become economically viable and right now it is still cheaper to get access to fresh water sources. New material technologies will change this, as will fresh water scarcity.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post The programming is the brain though right? What if we kept that programming intact but just gave it a much more durable body- one that is free of aging. We would not be improving the processor, but we would be giving it a better operating environment. Or do you think that might have its side effects too?

I don't know really. What I do know is human bodies are quite complex and when things go wrong it continues to only get worse, the body has very poor repair mechanisms that evolved only to keep you alive long enough to reproduce. The future of humanity will require us to change if we want to survive longer and in more hostile environments like in space.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post Do you think that space colonization, freeing ourselves from the closed system of Earth is the one path we have that avoids self destruction?

Only for certain things. The self destruction aspect still applies, especially as more dangerous technologies are developed. Even if we spread into the solar system AI or access to rare materials and advanced tech could still wipe us out.

Imagine future humans with access to fusion reactors putting out more energy than some nations today. Think about what happens when this technology is pervasive throughout the solar system and someone or a group of individuals have radical religious beliefs. This group/individual decides to accelerate rods to relativistic speeds and crash them into planets around the solar system. There is no defense to relativistic weaponry, these would essentially be planet busters. That is simply one type of weaponry that will become possible, there are numerous others.

Spreading into space will simply delay the inevitable.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post it reminded me of something fascinating- slime mold networks actually resemble human architecture like subway systems.

Slime molds have actually been used to plot out some improvements to subways in the past few years. You place food where you want the stations and the slime mold finds some of the most efficient methods to get to it. This is not intelligence, simply physics and chemistry in action.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post We have several intelligent animal species on our planet that are self-aware, and understand abstract concepts like zero and that when they look in the mirror they are seeing their reflection, invent their own words, create and use tools and even take care of their injured and bury their dead- elephants, dolphins, african grey parrots, dogs, bonobos, chimps, etc.

We don't know if they are entirely self aware, outside of maybe Dolphins and Elephants. They do express aspects of intelligence but when it comes to dogs and birds those may simply be mimicry possibly to adapt to our environment.

I have 2 articles for you to read, they are quite long, but they cover this notion of intelligence and are a fantastic read.

They aren't super scientific but more so than most other articles on the subject.

http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificia ... ion-1.html

http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificia ... ion-2.html

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post Out of curiosity, do you watch the series The Expanse? Fascinating series about solar system colonization.

I am watching the series as it airs, I was also gifted the books and audiobooks that are currently out but I haven't got far into them yet. The series is pretty good

A-L-E-X · 14 Apr 2017 07:36

DoctorOfSpace wrote:
A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post I want you to look over a few articles from the NY Times that I've been reading.

I am not going to have a response to you for a while. NYT isn't something I am going to trust so I will need to find some more information from other sources. If/when I can find more information I will get back to you.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post I have been waiting for desalination myself- I thought it was pretty ridiculous that the California drought was such a big problem (until recently) with them bordering on the largest ocean on the planet!

Problem is it needs to become economically viable and right now it is still cheaper to get access to fresh water sources. New material technologies will change this, as will fresh water scarcity.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post The programming is the brain though right? What if we kept that programming intact but just gave it a much more durable body- one that is free of aging. We would not be improving the processor, but we would be giving it a better operating environment. Or do you think that might have its side effects too?

I don't know really. What I do know is human bodies are quite complex and when things go wrong it continues to only get worse, the body has very poor repair mechanisms that evolved only to keep you alive long enough to reproduce. The future of humanity will require us to change if we want to survive longer and in more hostile environments like in space.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post Do you think that space colonization, freeing ourselves from the closed system of Earth is the one path we have that avoids self destruction?

Only for certain things. The self destruction aspect still applies, especially as more dangerous technologies are developed. Even if we spread into the solar system AI or access to rare materials and advanced tech could still wipe us out.

Imagine future humans with access to fusion reactors putting out more energy than some nations today. Think about what happens when this technology is pervasive throughout the solar system and someone or a group of individuals have radical religious beliefs. This group/individual decides to accelerate rods to relativistic speeds and crash them into planets around the solar system. There is no defense to relativistic weaponry, these would essentially be planet busters. That is simply one type of weaponry that will become possible, there are numerous others.

Spreading into space will simply delay the inevitable.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post it reminded me of something fascinating- slime mold networks actually resemble human architecture like subway systems.

Slime molds have actually been used to plot out some improvements to subways in the past few years. You place food where you want the stations and the slime mold finds some of the most efficient methods to get to it. This is not intelligence, simply physics and chemistry in action.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post We have several intelligent animal species on our planet that are self-aware, and understand abstract concepts like zero and that when they look in the mirror they are seeing their reflection, invent their own words, create and use tools and even take care of their injured and bury their dead- elephants, dolphins, african grey parrots, dogs, bonobos, chimps, etc.

We don't know if they are entirely self aware, outside of maybe Dolphins and Elephants. They do express aspects of intelligence but when it comes to dogs and birds those may simply be mimicry possibly to adapt to our environment.

I have 2 articles for you to read, they are quite long, but they cover this notion of intelligence and are a fantastic read.

They aren't super scientific but more so than most other articles on the subject.

http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificia ... ion-1.html

http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificia ... ion-2.html

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post Out of curiosity, do you watch the series The Expanse? Fascinating series about solar system colonization.

I am watching the series as it airs, I was also gifted the books and audiobooks that are currently out but I haven't got far into them yet. The series is pretty good

Yes, the interesting thing about human beings in space environments is hoq quickly the astronauts' bone density starts to change. For space colonies, we'd have to use centrifugal force to create artificial gravity that at least keeps them close to 1g. For other planets that of course won't work.
I find it sad that with all the modern levels of science we have, people stick to archaic religious beliefs. I'm more of an agnostic (leaning towards atheism) as there simply is no reason I can find why any thousands of years old religious text would know about our cosmos beyond what science can already discover.
I wonder if intelligence itself is simply physics and chemistry in action. Other species that belong on the same level as elephants and dolphins might be bonobos and chimpanzees, which have been known to carve tools in the wild and use them to skin antelopes that they consume. I like that staircase image you posted- it shows not only how different creatures are relatively positioned on the graph- but that we are still less than halfway from the top of the staircase- evolution is still occurring ;-)

Thanks for the articles, I'm about to five in!

PS let me know what you think about the Times articles I posted earlier. I am a proponent of genetic engineering, just not of a large multinational conglomerate controlling the entire market (either by itself or via a supermerger like the proposed Monsanto-Bayer merger.)

17 Apr 2017 15:10

A-L-E-X,don't get your hopes up about that negative mass stuff you posted. I got around to reading the paper on it and while it shows properties of negative mass it is still positive mass, it just has some behaviors attributed to negative mass.

https://arxiv.org/abs/1612.04055

Its cool but don't get your hopes up on it leading to anything that will break physics

A-L-E-X · 19 Apr 2017 11:20

DoctorOfSpace wrote:
A-L-E-X,don't get your hopes up about that negative mass stuff you posted. I got around to reading the paper on it and while it shows properties of negative mass it is still positive mass, it just has some behaviors attributed to negative mass.

https://arxiv.org/abs/1612.04055

Its cool but don't get your hopes up on it leading to anything that will break physics

Yes, it's more like one of those "simulations"- like the one where a magnetic monopole was "simulated" or a black hole or the big bang was "simulated." It's just a toy model.
That being said, do you think we'll discover negative mass one day?

Doc, I got something else for you to read that you might like

[color=#666666][size=200]Captured: First 'Image' of the Dark Matter That Holds Universe Together[/size][/color]
[color=#5b5b5b][size=120]By Nancy Atkinson, Seeker | April 18, 2017 07:27am ET[/size][/color]
[color=#5b5b5b][size=100][font=Symbol]· [img=825x0]https://dl-mail.ymail.com/ws/download/mailboxes/@.id==VjJ-hbltG6GK65lfqkCMYlCiIhWinUsFo5EHgq9WXL0uW90mEWsLF2jsnxgs8cPfq-4-UWhjIv2uHVC2R0Wv8Q9VgQ/messages/@.id==AO52w0MAGKhrWPcT9gt9aBMxzW0/content/parts/@.id==2/raw?appid=YahooMailBasic&ymreqid=a2c23dbd-cf4a-85c1-1325-130000010000&token=zitEzqOML3j84e6ealFTT5U7-km5qEQF52lp7AcCuBZ3Xp_9Bixel0GAGFBAegH1TYdQ8FN_IrWNNlyWfoe8Uj-JrAMrP7v-tg31ujXHdfUUoOqTwaoP3qY8b06fX38E[/img][/font][/size][/color]
[size=120]Dark matter filaments bridge the space between galaxies in this false color map. The locations of bright galaxies are shown by the white regions and the presence of a dark matter filament bridging the galaxies is shown in red.[/size]
[size=85]Credit: S. Epps/M. Hudson/University of Waterloo[/size]
[size=120]For decades, scientists have tracked hints of a thread-like structure that ties together galaxies across the universe. Theories, computer models, and indirect observations have indicated that there is a cosmic web of dark matter that connects galaxies and constitutes the large-scale structure of the cosmos. But while the filaments that make up this web are massive, dark matter is incredibly difficult to observe.[/size]
[size=120]Now, researchers have produced what they say is the first composite image of a dark matter filament that connects galaxies together.[/size]
[size=120]"This image moves us beyond predictions to something we can see and measure," said Mike Hudson, a professor of astronomy at the University of Waterloo in Canada, co-author of a [color=#000000][font=Verdana][color=#0099cc]new study[/color] published in the Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society.[/font][/size][/color]

[size=120] [/size]

[size=120] [/size]
[size=120]Dark matter, an elusive substance that is estimated to make up around [color=#000000][font=Verdana][color=#0099cc]27 percent[/color] of the universe, doesn't give off, reflect, or absorb light. This has made it virtually impossible to detect, except for its effects when it exerts a gravitational tug or when it warps the light of distant galaxies in what is called gravitational lensing.[/font][/size][/color]
[size=120]For their work, Hudson and co-author Seth Epps, who was a master's student at the University of Waterloo at the time of the research, employed a technique called weak gravitational lensing — a statistical measurement of the slight bends that occur in the path of light passing near mass. The effect produces illustrations of galaxies that appear slightly warped owing to the presence of celestial mass, such as dark matter.[/size]
[size=120]In their paper, they explained that in order to study the weak lensing signal of the dark matter filaments, they required two sets of data: a catalog of galaxy cluster pairs that were lensed, and a catalog of background source galaxies with accurate distance measurements.[/size]
[size=120]They combined lensing data from a multi-year sky survey at the Canada-France-Hawaii Telescope with information from the Sloan Digital Sky Survey that mapped luminous red galaxies (LRGs), which are massive, distant, and very old galaxies. [/size]
[size=120]"LRGs are very bright galaxies," Hudson told Seeker via email. "They tend to be more massive than the average galaxy and live in more massive dark matter 'halos.' It's reasonable to expect that the filament or bridge between them might also be more massive than the average."[/size]
[size=120][color=#000000][font=Verdana][color=#0099cc]RELATED: The Andromeda Galaxy Could Be Buzzing With Dark Matter[/color][/font][/size][/color]
[size=120]Hudson and Epps combined or "stacked" more than 23,000 galaxy pairs, all located about 4.5 billion light-years away. This allowed them to create a composite image or map that shows the presence of dark matter between galaxies. Hudson told Seeker that the filament in their "image" is the average of all 23,000 pairs.[/size]
[size=120]"The primary reason that we used these galaxies is that they had precise distances (as measured by another team)," Hudson explained. "These distance measurements allowed us to distinguish between pairs of galaxies that were actual pairs in 3D (meaning both are at the same distance from us) as opposed to two galaxies that appeared close on the sky but were actually at very different distances."[/size]
[size=120]3D pairs would be physically close to each other and hence, will have a bridge whereas the second group are not physically close to each other, and so would not have a bridge between them. Hudson and Epps said their results show the dark matter filament bridge is strongest between systems less than 40 million light years apart.[/size]
[size=120]"By using this technique, we're not only able to see that these dark matter filaments in the universe exist, we're able to see the extent to which these filaments connect galaxies together," Epps said in a [color=#000000][font=Verdana][color=#0099cc]statement[/color].[/font][/size][/color]
[size=120][color=#000000][font=Verdana][color=#0099cc]RELATED: Camouflaged Dark Matter Galaxy Discovered[/color][/font][/size][/color]
[size=120]The Big Bang theory predicts that variations in the density of matter in the very first moments of the universe led the bulk of the matter in the cosmos to condense into a web of tangled filaments. To explain this, astronomer Fritz Zwicky first introduced the concept of dark matter in 1933, when his measurements of galaxies moving within a galaxy cluster showed they must have at least ten times more invisible matter than what is visible.[/size]
[size=120]But it wasn't until the 1970s that dark matter was taken seriously. Vera Rubin and Kent Ford Jr. mapped the motions of stars within galaxies close to our own Milky Way, and they also concluded that each galaxy had to include enormous amounts of unseen matter, far more than all the visible matter. Later, computer simulations confirmed this and suggested the existence of dark matter, structured like a web, with long filaments that connect to each other at the locations of massive galaxy clusters.[/size]
[size=120]In their paper, Hudson and Epps list dozens of previous studies that have attempted to measure and observe the dark matter web, and they say they hope their stacking techniques to measure the filaments between groups and clusters of galaxies can serve as a foundation for future filament studies. They hope upcoming surveys and telescopes will continue to further our understanding of dark matter.[/size]

A-L-E-X · 19 Apr 2017 11:23

I was reading today about some of our big pollution problems that we face and that's why I worry so much about overpopulation. In places like China and Korea, people wear masks because the air pollution is so bad. The more people there are, the worse the pollution problem will be and the more forests we'll have to chop down to make room for them- and the less room there will be for biodiversity. I also read that the world population is doubling every 30 years or so- that's pretty alarming. At some point we'll have to start limiting families to two children for the sake of the welfare of the entire planet. The ideal human population is considered to be 1 billion- and we're far from there.

I also share your concern about what might happen if new technology gets into the wrong hands- NK is a case in point, but so are single individuals or rogue groups who can get their hands on these technologies. In my perfect world there would be no nukes anywhere- not in the US and not anywhere else. I don't even like guns. I don't like the actions of the military (including the atomic bomb drop in Japan, as well as how many species were driven to extinction on islands where military bases were built- like Hawaii.) I wish we had a more Nordic system with no guns, universal healthcare and universal education. Here in NY we are sort of getting there, with free public college education for families that make 125K or less, a ban on fracking, a min wage of 15/hr- they're even looking into single payer health care. I'd also like us to get away from the surveillance state because that is a slippery slope (we've already seen how they go after peaceful protestors and environmental groups, as well as civil rights activists) as well as police militarization.

My big concern is if we do discover alien life on other worlds, we'll try to conquer them the same way we've done with colonization on our own planet. Remember Stargate SG-1? My favorite parts of that show were when peaceful alien intelligent life disarmed humans with weapons who thought that they could run roughshod over those worlds. It reminds me of Star Trek TOS when something similar happened when the Federation and Klingon tried to start a war on a new world and a highly advanced and peaceful civilization disarmed both sides. In both cases everyone was amazed that such a simple looking species could be so technologically advanced and yet have no need or desire for weapons! That's the kind of society I'd like to live in.

Unfortunately we have stuff like this going on

[font=Verdana]http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=136906[/font]

Russia’s new stealth bomber will reportedly be capable of launching nukes from space

By wmw_admin on July 25, 2016

Luke Dormehl — Digital Trends July 15, 2016

Artist impression of Russia’s hypersonic stealth bomber. Click to enlarge

Russia is developing a next-gen stealth bomber, capable of exiting Earth’s atmosphere, flying anywhere anywhere on the planet within two hours, and hypothetically even launching a nuclear strike from space.

Called the PAK-DA strategic bomber, the hypersonic aircraft — which won’t be visible to radar — could take to the skies within the next half-decade, after successful prototype engine tests were completed recently.

“Right now we are reviewing the [craft’s] nuances, which will take approximately one year,” said Sergei Karakayev, commander of Russian Strategic Missile Forces, as reported by news outlet Observer. “Once we agree on the plans, we will start building the engine itself. In the second year of development — 2018 — we will build the hardware. Perhaps I am rushing things, and some issues may arise, but by 2020 we should have a fully-functioning product.”

The Russian stealth bomber will reportedly burn traditional kerosene fuel while flying in Earth’s atmosphere, although it will run on methane and oxygen while in space — which explains how it would be able to fly in an atmosphere where air isn’t exactly in ready availability. Running these two fuel types will require two engines — one engine for the airplane and the other for the spaceship — which will be combined within the bomber’s engine setting.

Originally it was claimed that the new aircraft was being designed for delivering supplies to an international orbit station, although it seems that somewhere along the R&D journey ambitions have changed.

This isn’t the only military Russian breakthrough we’ve heard about recently. It has also been reported that Russia is set to load up both manned and unmanned combat drones with the capacity to destroy the electronic equipment in hostile aircrafts. These drones will reportedly arrive in 2025.

Source

A-L-E-X · 19 Apr 2017 11:45

werdnaforever wrote:
DoctorOfSpace wrote:

This could start a chain of events leading to the collapse of low skilled jobs if you think about it.

It's also a privacy nightmare. At least, even more of one than what we currently deal with.

Indeed. I was mowing my lawn the other day and when I checked my email when I got back inside I was inundated with lawn ads ;-)

Great, more marketing for Monsanto. (I don't buy it but they somehow know when I am mowing my lawn lol.)
Watch the movie The Circle when it comes out later this month about surveillance. Snowden was not wrong.

A-L-E-X · 19 Apr 2017 11:47

werdnaforever wrote:
DoctorOfSpace wrote:

Insert cliche comment about how we don't spend nearly enough money in anti-aging research. Also, he talks quite a bit about extending the lives of smaller organisms. I guess it's all about pragmatism; it's not as easy to experiment that way on chimps or blue whales.

► Show Spoiler
I think Nathaniel David secretly got his anti-senescence drugs working years ago. Why? Because of his haircut. I think he's really 100+ years old with no knowledge of modern day fashion

meh I'd rather experiment on criminals on death row than on any animals.

A-L-E-X · 19 Apr 2017 11:49

Mosfet wrote:
I guess "deep learning systems" it means so many cameras and RFID tech that if you only sneeze they will offer you paper handkerchiefs with 10% off right before the exit. I haven't decided yet if this leaves me with a bit of discomfort or not.
I'm the type who doesn't use discount cards for the sake of leaving marketing out of my personal life, at least when I'm aware of it.

Before you know it, they'll outlaw using cash because you can't surveill cash ;-)

19 Apr 2017 11:59

That black font thing is such an eyesore.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post I don't even like guns.

I like my guns

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post I wish we had a more Nordic system with no guns, universal healthcare and universal education.

Those systems are not perfect either. I think guns have a place in society and I think if a country gives someone a right to life, then they should also have a right to defend that life.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post Here in NY we are sort of getting there, with free public college education for families that make 125K or less, a ban on fracking, a min wage of 15/hr- they're even looking into single payer health care.

Good, that is how it should be. It is not the job of the federal government to do these things, in the US these sorts of actions should fall on the states.

$15/h wage is going to be one of the main causes of the automation crisis.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post I'd also like us to get away from the surveillance state because that is a slippery slope (we've already seen how they go after peaceful protestors and environmental groups, as well as civil rights activists) as well as police militarization.

Won't happen any time soon.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post My big concern is if we do discover alien life on other worlds, we'll try to conquer them the same way we've done with colonization on our own planet.

We don't have the resources for interstellar travel and probably won't for a very long time if ever so you don't need to worry about that.

A-L-E-X · 19 Apr 2017 12:27

DoctorOfSpace wrote:
That black font thing is such an eyesore.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post I don't even like guns.

I like my guns

Well you seem to be a responsible person so you're an exception, but we have some who just shoot them off randomly.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post I wish we had a more Nordic system with no guns, universal healthcare and universal education.

Those systems are not perfect either. I think guns have a place in society and I think if a country gives someone a right to life, then they should also have a right to defend that life.

Oh, I agree with that completely- I'm not one to trust the police to defend a life- it's just that we seem to have a big proliferation of guns being received by the wrong people. Do people in Europe not own guns at all?

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post Here in NY we are sort of getting there, with free public college education for families that make 125K or less, a ban on fracking, a min wage of 15/hr- they're even looking into single payer health care.

Good, that is how it should be. It is not the job of the federal government to do these things, in the US these sorts of actions should fall on the states.

$15/h wage is going to be one of the main causes of the automation crisis.

Yes, although I am a big fan of robots/androids (because of Asimov I guess.) I know low skilled jobs will go by the wayside, but why can't we have people aim to achieve higher goals. If they have a chance at a free education, they could become scientists, doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. We need more of those.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post I'd also like us to get away from the surveillance state because that is a slippery slope (we've already seen how they go after peaceful protestors and environmental groups, as well as civil rights activists) as well as police militarization.

Won't happen any time soon.

Is this something you see as a worldwide phenomenon?

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post My big concern is if we do discover alien life on other worlds, we'll try to conquer them the same way we've done with colonization on our own planet.

We don't have the resources for interstellar travel and probably won't for a very long time if ever so you don't need to worry about that.

Unfortunately I get articles in email without links so I have to deal with the black font thing too

Well you seem to be a responsible person so you're an exception, but we have some who just shoot them off randomly.

Oh, I agree with that completely- I'm not one to trust the police to defend a life- it's just that we seem to have a big proliferation of guns being received by the wrong people. Do people in Europe not own guns at all? I don't think any system is perfect and nothing lasts forever because human beings themselves are not perfect and can't last forever. And on a different issue, why is fast food so much more prevalent here (with obesity/diabetic issues) then it is there? There seem to be a lot more additives that are outlawed in Europe than they are here. In America we need to eat healthier, less processed food (as recommended by the American Heart Association and American Cancer Society.)

Yes, although I am a big fan of robots/androids (because of Asimov I guess.) I know low skilled jobs will go by the wayside, but why can't we have people aim to achieve higher goals. If they have a chance at a free education, they could become scientists, doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. We need more of those.

Is this something you see as a worldwide phenomenon (the surveillance state and police militarization)?

By the time we achieve interstellar travel we might even be over our desire for violence!

19 Apr 2017 15:20

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post lawyers

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post We need more of those.

The justice system works swiftly in the future now that they've abolished all lawyers.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post Do people in Europe not own guns at all?

Some do, but as far as I know in most places they have to be locked up, require a permit, and can't be used in self defense.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post why is fast food so much more prevalent here (with obesity/diabetic issues) then it is there?

Fast food is pretty common in Europe, they have different laws for it though in different countries and quite a lot of the world is facing epidemics of obesity and diabetes.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post There seem to be a lot more additives that are outlawed in Europe than they are here.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post In America we need to eat healthier, less processed food (as recommended by the American Heart Association and American Cancer Society.)

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post Is this something you see as a worldwide phenomenon (the surveillance state and police militarization)?

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post I know low skilled jobs will go by the wayside, but why can't we have people aim to achieve higher goals. If they have a chance at a free education, they could become scientists, doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. We need more of those.

Most of those jobs will end up automated.

A-L-E-X · 19 Apr 2017 16:42

DoctorOfSpace wrote:
A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post lawyers

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post We need more of those.

The justice system works swiftly in the future now that they've abolished all lawyers.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post Do people in Europe not own guns at all?

Some do, but as far as I know in most places they have to be locked up, require a permit, and can't be used in self defense.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post why is fast food so much more prevalent here (with obesity/diabetic issues) then it is there?

Fast food is pretty common in Europe, they have different laws for it though in different countries and quite a lot of the world is facing epidemics of obesity and diabetes.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post There seem to be a lot more additives that are outlawed in Europe than they are here.

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post In America we need to eat healthier, less processed food (as recommended by the American Heart Association and American Cancer Society.)

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post Is this something you see as a worldwide phenomenon (the surveillance state and police militarization)?

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post I know low skilled jobs will go by the wayside, but why can't we have people aim to achieve higher goals. If they have a chance at a free education, they could become scientists, doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. We need more of those.

Most of those jobs will end up automated.

No lawyers in the future?! What about judges? It would be funny if AI governed everything and all wars were "simulated"- although with AI ruling over all, I believe wars and even borders would rapidly be dissolved...... of course, human freedoms might also go by the wayside!
Interesting about guns, I believe in the UK, the police (bobbies) don't carry guns.
As a pediatrician, I get rather upset when parents tell me they feed their children fast food, soda, etc. These habits get rather set early in childhood and cause the effects we see later on. We're even seeing puberty occur earlier and earlier (with its own set of problems.) There was a pulitzer prize winning book written about the addictive chemicals used by the fast food industry. We really could use a guy like Teddy Roosevelt as president, to break up the large corporations and megaconglomerates that resulted from supermergers.

What you said about automated jobs reminds me of what Asimov wrote about how the rise of robots would create a huge schism in society and the rich and wealthy would have robot servants/slaves while "regular" people would become resentful and there'd eventually be an uprising against robots. In his Spacer series, the rich plantation owners and their robot servants eventually went to occupy the Fifty Spacer Worlds, while "regular" people remained on earth and robots were banished from the planet. The planet basically became one large urbanized city.
I thought that robots would be reserved for unskilled and repetitive jobs though and that creative and scientific jobs would be reserved for human beings.

19 Apr 2017 16:45

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post As a pediatrician, I get rather upset when parents tell me they feed their children fast food, soda, etc. These habits get rather set early in childhood and cause the effects we see later on.

Addicting habit too, I drink sody pops like I should drink water. One of these days thats gonna catch up with me...

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post I thought that robots would be reserved for unskilled and repetitive jobs though and that creative and scientific jobs would be reserved for human beings.

AI is already making music and doing creative tasks. It looks like AI will end up doing the vast majority of everything.

A-L-E-X · 19 Apr 2017 16:52

DoctorOfSpace wrote:
A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post As a pediatrician, I get rather upset when parents tell me they feed their children fast food, soda, etc. These habits get rather set early in childhood and cause the effects we see later on.

Addicting habit too, I drink sody pops like I should drink water. One of these days thats gonna catch up with me...

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post I thought that robots would be reserved for unskilled and repetitive jobs though and that creative and scientific jobs would be reserved for human beings.

AI is already making music and doing creative tasks. It looks like AI will end up doing the vast majority of everything.

We're going to have to get you on something healthy that also tastes good. My BP went down from 190/110 to 130/85 when I cut out fast food/soda (I'll admit it was difficult- orange soda and fries were my weakness.)
I wonder if, despite the best efforts to control AI, it'll eventually become too powerful and smart to control. In the beginning they were rather confident that some version of Asimov's Three/Four Laws of Robotics would keep AI in check, but we're not so sure anymore. Something that complex and intelligent will eventually learn to undo any of the shackles we place on it- and despite our best efforts- will eventually come to resent us for it. Interesting how we don't believe that AI could ever display emotion and would always be rational, but the more complex it gets, the more prone it will be to errors and "emotional" responses.

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