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gamadh
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18 Sep 2017 12:29

DoctorOfSpace wrote:
gamadh wrote:
Source of the post When will we be able to travel faster than light? I say something like wormholes if you can control

99.99% sure the answer is never

so, are there chances? cool
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21 Sep 2017 04:22

Do you think our conception of "cities" needs to be renewed?
Imagine having to colonize another planet, a terraformed Mars for example, is it convenient to build cities like we did on Earth?
Cars can't be powered exclusively by electricity so combustion-based means of transport are necessary, if you don't create a continuous and efficient public-transport service, and this means air pollution.

Do we really need to put these vehicles inside our cities?

A lot of cities, since the industrial revolution, have certain areas that doesn't allow the presence of vehicles like cars, but these ares are usually very small.  This have been done to limitate the air pollution, but also because streets of these areas are usually very narrow so it would be very dangerous for pedestrians and uncomfortable for drivers.  Cars are a danger, and programming cars to drive by themself inside a complicated structure like that of modern cities is very hard, it would be much easier to program them to drive through highways-like roads (like Tesla already do).  So why not...  having a structure like this:

future_city.png


In this utopian structure, cities does not expands in all directions but they follow the "main road", who goes everywhere (it also splits to create a sort of "grid").  In modern cities to reach a place you need to know the path but in this kind of city you just need to...  count.  Here is an example: you need to reach a place that is in the Sector 416 South, you are in Sector 394 North, the only thing you have to do is taking the main road at "increasing" direction (so the opposite of the one you're currently in) and take the 416th exit.  Cars cannot go outside this main-road and the parking lot (that is preferably underground, with air locked rooms to avoid excessive damage in case of fire), the "upper" part of the city cannot contain cars of any sort so there are not "streets" full of tar or other toxic materials, just people walking and bikes.
There is a large space between one building and another, and some areas might actually be multi-level, like the utopian model of Leonardo Da Vinci.  Outside the "city-line" there are forests and cultivation fields, so most of the area of the planet would contain forests and nature.

Still, there are a few problems that needs to be solved:
• You can't put your car outside the main road so you can't easily visit places outside the city (like natural attractions) if not using an helicopter/plane or by foot.  This might be a serious problem for people who cultivate the land, they will be in planes for most of the time and they'll start thinking things like "Why couldn't I live here, outside the city?!".
• If the number of people is very high, there might not be enough physical space to put these people in, if not making buildings taller and taller or splitting again a section to create a new "line" of city.
• Having a delimited area around and a fixed structure means that you're limited on the architectural and visual-diversity level.  Being in one place or another, maybe on the other side of the world, would always "feel the same", you wouldn't see too much difference because the structure of roads and cities is always the same.  You can still build "large and unique buildings", there is no limitation in "how far you can go from the main road", but keeping in mind there will be only one entrance!
• There is no more a feeling of "belonging", you can give names to parts of this "giant net", also giving them an autonomous government, but borders doesn't even makes sense anymore.  This is both a good and bad thing, more a good thing probably, even because wars wouldn't also make too much sense, but it would be complicated to decide how to manage politics, take decisions on the borders and many other problems that probably didn't emerged here.

I hope it was enough interesting to read, also I'm curious to listen your opinions on it!
(If the discussion continues I'll probably open a thread for it, but I doubt it will happen :))
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21 Sep 2017 06:18

I think you forgot that the terrain is not always flat and featureless.  The layout of cities are restricted by hills, rivers, lakes, and so on.
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21 Sep 2017 07:04

midtskogen wrote:
I think you forgot that the terrain is not always flat and featureless.  The layout of cities are restricted by hills, rivers, lakes, and so on.

Of course I considered it.  The cities doesn't need to be perfectly straight, they can follow those features when it's possible. When it's not possible there's just the road with no sectors like in the image, just like cities on the earth, here comes the problem with population and buildable area.
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21 Sep 2017 22:24

DoctorOfSpace wrote:
gamadh wrote:
Source of the post When will we be able to travel faster than light? I say something like wormholes if you can control

99.99% sure the answer is never

Doc people forget that you don't need to travel faster than light in order to get from here to there in less time than light does, you just have to be at the technological level to be able to alter the geometry of space.
About the city issue, when we colonize space hopefully we will evolve beyond the need of pollution-causing and stress-inducing cities.
 
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21 Sep 2017 23:28

A-L-E-X wrote:
when we colonize space hopefully we will evolve beyond the need of pollution-causing and stress-inducing cities.

Yeah, I think cities are stressful and dangerous mostly because of cars. I know I'm presenting this idea like a stupid teenager that wants to change the world, but I guess it's more applicable to sci-fi writers than to reality, even if I wouldn't mind seeing such a city structure realized.  :)
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22 Sep 2017 00:05

Salvo wrote:
A-L-E-X wrote:
when we colonize space hopefully we will evolve beyond the need of pollution-causing and stress-inducing cities.

Yeah, I think cities are stressful and dangerous mostly because of cars. I know I'm presenting this idea like a stupid teenager that wants to change the world, but I guess it's more applicable to sci-fi writers than to reality, even if I wouldn't mind seeing such a city structure realized.  :)

I mean, pollution is directly linked to population and both must be controlled at all costs.  Sometimes the people who have been around for too long lose sight of what's really needed.  Pollution in big cities is directly linked to birth defects, autism, asthma, ADHD, rising rates of cancer, anxiety, depression, etc.  Throw in fast food, soda and a bunch of additives that we shouldn't be consuming and you have a big problem on your hands.  Either we fix the problems or Nature will do it for us.
 
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22 Sep 2017 06:11

A-L-E-X wrote:
I mean, pollution is directly linked to population and both must be controlled at all costs.  Sometimes the people who have been around for too long lose sight of what's really needed.  Pollution in big cities is directly linked to birth defects, autism, asthma, ADHD, rising rates of cancer, anxiety, depression, etc.  Throw in fast food, soda and a bunch of additives that we shouldn't be consuming and you have a big problem on your hands.  Either we fix the problems or Nature will do it for us.

We changed the equilibrium of our planet, we're not too much different from a random asteroid or a big volcano killing a big number of species.  Our problem is that we're putting in the environment and inside our body things that normally should be, but eventually we (humans and nature) will adapt to this change with evolution, maybe the rates of cancer and other pollution-related diseases will also decrease in far future (like species living near Chernobyl that evolved to produce way more antioxidants than normal to fight radiation's damage), but this doesn't mean we shouldn't care about it.  We and many other species would survive anyway, but a lot of things would change forever: temperature, intensity of storms, longer periods of dryness, a lot of species extinct, etc.
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22 Sep 2017 10:50

A-L-E-X wrote:
DoctorOfSpace wrote:
gamadh wrote:
Source of the post When will we be able to travel faster than light? I say something like wormholes if you can control

99.99% sure the answer is never

Doc people forget that you don't need to travel faster than light in order to get from here to there in less time than light does, you just have to be at the technological level to be able to alter the geometry of space.
About the city issue, when we colonize space hopefully we will evolve beyond the need of pollution-causing and stress-inducing cities.

but I was talking about wormholes and also when I think of traveling to other stars I do not think about colonizing, just visiting and explore
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22 Sep 2017 11:23

gamadh wrote:
Source of the post but I was talking about wormholes and also when I think of traveling to other stars I do not think about colonizing, just visiting and explore

My knowledge base on wormholes and warp drives is decent, but quite limited.  If you would like a well thought out response as to why they would be most likely impossible I would definitely ask Watsisname.
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22 Sep 2017 11:32

DoctorOfSpace wrote:
gamadh wrote:
Source of the post but I was talking about wormholes and also when I think of traveling to other stars I do not think about colonizing, just visiting and explore

My knowledge base on wormholes and warp drives is decent, but quite limited.  If you would like a well thought out response as to why they would be most likely impossible I would definitely ask Watsisname.

they could not at least be possible ina future in which our physics and thecnology had advanced unexpectedly, remember that overcoming the speed of sound was impossible in the past, the relativity allows warp and also allows the wormhole
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22 Sep 2017 11:35

gamadh wrote:
Source of the post remember that overcoming the speed of sound was impossible in the past

There was nothing in the laws of physics that said traveling faster than sound was impossible, it was a true engineering problem.  The two cannot be compared
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22 Sep 2017 11:46

DoctorOfSpace wrote:
gamadh wrote:
Source of the post remember that overcoming the speed of sound was impossible in the past

There was nothing in the laws of physics that said traveling faster than sound was impossible, it was a true engineering problem.  The two cannot be compared


I understand, but I do not speak of actually traveling faster than light, my goal with the question and if it would be possible for us humans to create a bottleneck that we know not to exceed the speed of light, that was my question because I I know that surpassing the speed of light is an impossibility but I meant to reach another place in space for another dimension like an the wormholes
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22 Sep 2017 12:17

Why the great need to travel faster than light? Modern humans have been around 50,000 years. Within 50,000 light years there are around 200 billion stars. Plenty to go for before we evolve into something different.
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22 Sep 2017 13:03

Perhaps it is easier to develop a technique that allows us to bypass the speed of light (warp, wormhole, hyperspace), as a technique that allows us to fly at approximately the speed of light.

The seemingly empty universe is not empty at light speed.

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