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Watsisname
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15 Jul 2017 19:42

Marko S. wrote:
Source of the post Do you believe in life after life? And also life before life? Tell me some of your theories, I'll be glad to hear them

I'm not sure.  I have no theories for this, or even a particular belief system either way, really.  If there is more to life than this one that would be very neat, but I choose to live my life as if it's the only one I have, enjoying and trying to get the most from every day I have in this world.

I would say that I'm spiritual in the sense of having a strong appreciation for life and deeper mysteries than just physics, even though my career is basically a study of physics.  I'm an onieronaut, an explorer of dreams and inner consciousness, meditative, and generally do lots of stuff that isn't just "cold hard science".

I create this thread so anyone who wants to can share their ideas.  I imagine it can get very interesting, and I'm interested in hearing your ideas as well. :)
 
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15 Jul 2017 19:52

Also, given the potentially religious subject matter, I just want to make clear for everyone -- and I don't think this needs to be said because this is quite a mature community and usually we don't have problems -- but there won't be any rude or intolerant behavior allowed here.  If you're going to post, be kind, open minded, and respectful of others and their views, even if you do not agree with them.  Thanks!
 
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15 Jul 2017 19:56

First politics and now religion, two subjects I have wanted to be avoided on these forums.  Will leave moderation of these threads up to Watsisname, will not be heavily involved in these discussions so if you have any problems here it's up to him.
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15 Jul 2017 20:03

I believe in life after death. I have not a clue what is after death. A simple 'nothing' that happens or just everything 'ends' does not satisfy me. I think death could be like a sleep. But consciousness....my consciousness not existing is something I personally cannot fathom. 

Of course I came from a few cells. Is that acknowledgement of those ancient days hidden in my memory? Is it hidden in all of us? 

I believe that the universe was created by a force, a force of nature. Maybe not just coming into being just because, because thats not how things work in my view.

I believe there is an infinite loop. A loop of time. The universe dies, and then gets revitalized. Like a beating heart. There is nothing to prove anything existed before the universe except the concept of the infinite loop.

Where did everything come from? All matter. It had to come from somewhere. Where it came from had to come from somewhere and so on. The easy solution is to say an infinite loop. A big bang could be when everything comes into being. Where did it come from? What did it look like? What would it be like to be hit by it? 

Now I get onto the topic of god. God...is a hard topic for me. I've prayed several times. Sometimes my prayers are 'answered'. Maybe thats just my mind effecting the world around me, and not a divine being.

The mind effects the world around us. I think of things, a thought, action. Later down the road it happens. Usually small things.

The worlds we explore beyond will help us explore the worlds within us. I know I have dreams. Many dreams that occur while I am laying in bed. Many theories going about. I want to explore my subconscious. 

A few days ago I woke up around 8, then went back to bed. I felt my body going numb, I felt a gyrating sensation. My thoughts became dreams. The thoughts I thought became dreams. I acknowledged that I was thinking but not dreaming. Afterwards I remembered my thoughts as dreams.
 
Why? Why did I come to be on this planet? Why not some other planet in some other galaxy? I dunno. Perhaps nobody knows. Perhaps the universe has a reason for all of us to be here on this planet, a reason thats not we were all formed by atoms and such.

I cannot fathom consciousness coming from atoms, nor can I fathom creation in a classical 'religious' model. I don't know. I don't know if anyone knows for a fact. And such facts can easily be faked. I don't know what to believe in. So I believe in myself. 

I had a dream once. Once every year every human on the planet would gather, and focus on 1 thing. Whatever that thing was. Peace, love happiness.

Then thats when it happened.

Its probably unrealistic, but theres only 1 way to find out, right? By doing.

A thought can be an action. A thought will warp its way around the universe, and come back in the form of an action. You can call it 'Karma'

I don't believe its a 'religious' thing. I don't believe in tradational gods, nor any of that.

I believe that 'Karma' is a reality, a physic sorta thing. Not math, not anything. A force of nature. 

Where did consciousness come from? Why? How? Where? When? 

And what divides consciousness to sub conscious?

Can thoughts be read and recovered?

Thoughts can be warped. Changed. 

I don't consider myself part of anything really. I consider myself being. I consider myself independent from everything, I take in the truths of everything and apply it to myself. 

My mind is something of chaos. My mind is always moving, changing, but alot of things stay the same. 

I feel nostalgia for old times. But now I've learned from them. 

Thats the things I believe. I'm Non tradtionalist. I do not like following the old ways. Progess and order must be made for a better future.  

Many scientists, and people get their...revolutionary ways from dreams. I think Einstein did at some point. Or I am completely wrong. Perhaps one of us may have a dream that may become a reality and change the future. It could be the person reading this, me, your descendant, or someone else. 
 
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15 Jul 2017 20:55

DoctorOfSpace wrote:
Source of the post First politics and now religion, two subjects I have wanted to be avoided on these forums.  Will leave moderation of these threads up to Watsisname, will not be heavily involved in these discussions so if you have any problems here it's up to him.

Yeah, I contemplated for a while as to whether or not I would make this thread.  I'm wary of the potential for this kind of topic to become heated, but at the same time I don't believe in suppressing a healthy discussion if it should arise.  It isn't a problem unless it becomes a problem, and I intend to make sure that it doesn't.


Starlight Glimmer, nice post!  I like the free-form quality of your thoughts, and I too believe in something deeper and more fundamental than what is described in traditional religions, even if I don't know what it actually is.

I think a lot of religions tried to explain creation using what they had available, which was often quite fanciful and colored by where the culture developed and their social structures.  Current astronomy, rooted in math, physics, and observations on the largest of scales, now has the description closest to reality, but does not explain where the whole dang Big Bang came from.  The answers to these questions, if they can even be found, may be vastly more strange and exciting than anyone ever imagined.
 
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16 Jul 2017 03:04

Watsisname wrote:
Source of the post I would say that I'm spiritual in the sense of having a strong appreciation for life and deeper mysteries than just physics

Watsisname wrote:
Source of the post I too believe in something deeper and more fundamental than what is described in traditional religions, even if I don't know what it actually is

Could you elaborate on what sorts of things you believe in beyond physics, and why you believe they exist?

Starlight Glimmer wrote:
Source of the post I believe in life after death. I have not a clue what is after death. A simple 'nothing' that happens or just everything 'ends' does not satisfy me.

Just because an answer is unsatisfactory does not make it wrong. There are several things in this universe that I find unsatisfactory but are demonstrated to be physical truths. Satisfaction is not required for something to be reality.

Starlight Glimmer wrote:
Source of the post The mind effects the world around us. I think of things, a thought, action. Later down the road it happens. Usually small things.

Do you mean other than through the actions of the person possessing the mind? If so, why do you think this? Thinking of something and then it happening, while very noticeable and memorable when it happens, generally doesn't happen at a rate inconsistent with random coincidence. We only think it does because we're biased towards noticing it when it happens. Think of all the thoughts you've ever had that have never manifested in reality. It's difficult because we tend to merely forget them, but they far outweigh the thoughts that do correlate to something happening in the world.

Starlight Glimmer wrote:
Source of the post A few days ago I woke up around 8, then went back to bed. I felt my body going numb, I felt a gyrating sensation. My thoughts became dreams. The thoughts I thought became dreams. I acknowledged that I was thinking but not dreaming. Afterwards I remembered my thoughts as dreams.

Sounds like a classic case of sleep paralysis. It's happened to me before. It's a very strange phenomenon to experience if you don't know what it is, which is why it is often given supernatural significance by those who experience it.

Starlight Glimmer wrote:
Source of the post Why? Why did I come to be on this planet? Why not some other planet in some other galaxy? I dunno. Perhaps nobody knows. Perhaps the universe has a reason for all of us to be here on this planet, a reason thats not we were all formed by atoms and such.

The question "why" is a malformed question. It presupposes the existence of some reason, some purpose. This very well may not exist. The only "why" that makes sense to ask is "what are the causal factors that led to" something.

Starlight Glimmer wrote:
Source of the post I cannot fathom consciousness coming from atom

Yet it could still be the case. Whether something can be easily imagined or understood has no relationship with whether or not it can be true.

Starlight Glimmer wrote:
Source of the post Where did consciousness come from? Why? How? Where? When?

This has been studied extensively, and there is good reason to believe that consciousness is an emergent property of the physical activities of the brain. Consciousness is probably not a binary thing, either existing or not existing. It probably can exist in gradients and evolutionary steps, like the sense of sight for example.

Starlight Glimmer wrote:
Source of the post Can thoughts be read and recovered?

Almost certainly yes, using technology. Things like this are already being done experimentally using technology, though in a relatively primitive way.
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16 Jul 2017 03:54

I just don't know what to post here. Do you all want to hear some of my stories and theories about God and why people in the past 'created gods' to explain some things? It may get, too religious (about my stories, they are actual true events that may explain something about God and conscious)

Watsisname wrote:
Source of the post I'm not sure.  I have no theories for this, or even a particular belief system either way, really.  If there is more to life than this one that would be very neat, but I choose to live my life as if it's the only one I have, enjoying and trying to get the most from every day I have in this world.

I would say that I'm spiritual in the sense of having a strong appreciation for life and deeper mysteries than just physics, even though my career is basically a study of physics.  I'm an onieronaut, an explorer of dreams and inner consciousness, meditative, and generally do lots of stuff that isn't just "cold hard science".

I create this thread so anyone who wants to can share their ideas.  I imagine it can get very interesting, and I'm interested in hearing your ideas as well.


It is good that you are spiritual. When someone is smart and knows all the facts, that's not bad. But, also needs to have wisdom. I am not saying that you are just smart, you are smart and have everything that needs to explore some of the 'theology' and explain it. Don't get me as too religious. I am not that as you think. I am maybe just most religious human here on this forum.
My thoughts are that we have to be religious as much as we are scientist. We need to look at all the evidence and compare it and then gettin into conclusion. We can't say someting is true if that's not the only evidence we have.
I think that there has to be something that created us. Life can't get on it's own.
I hope I will find some evidence for you, but there is just enough. You just need to know where to look.

Watsisname wrote:
Source of the post I think a lot of religions tried to explain creation using what they had available


But what about before religions were formed? What they had to explain things? if you think that they had gods available, then who got the idea of gods?

"Someone who just scrached the science will be taken away from God, but someone who got deeper will get closer to Him."
-Louis Pasteur 

I will say this again. I want to discuss some other things, like I want to hear some of your stories from life and something like that.
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16 Jul 2017 05:23

Marko S. wrote:
Source of the post Life can't get on it's own.

Why not? Everything we've discovered about the universe thus far suggests that life can readily come into being through natural evolutionary processes. Energy + laws of physics = elementary particles -> nuclear particles -> atoms -> stars -> more complex atoms -> chemical interactions -> self-replication -> etc.
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16 Jul 2017 06:15

HarbingerDawn wrote:
Marko S. wrote:
Source of the post Life can't get on it's own.

Why not? Everything we've discovered about the universe thus far suggests that life can readily come into being through natural evolutionary processes. Energy + laws of physics = elementary particles -> nuclear particles -> atoms -> stars -> more complex atoms -> chemical interactions -> self-replication -> etc.

Answer is simple. Evolution only counts if life already started. Evolution doesn't start life. Plus, how could the universe know how to make organism that would breathe or anything that would be related to life? It can't be that random. Why didn't universe create something other than life that we are familiar? Also physics and other things. Evolution is just full of holes.
About self-reproduction, it can be achived only if there is a complete organism that would reporoduce in order to survive. Same is if some intelligent being would create robot that they would send to space. They can't constantly make another so they would program the robot to gather materials from planets and then make copies of itself.
Where did that energy come from? All living beings have energy. You, me, everybody. Energy can't be created from nothing. There has to be at least some force or living being to make it.
I know this has no effect on anybody so I just avoid questions like this. You believe in this, I in that, and dot. I want to discuss some real life situations. And SE progress. 
So, how's the life? Anything new? :)
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16 Jul 2017 06:34

Marko S. wrote:
Source of the post Evolution only counts if life already started. Evolution doesn't start life. Plus, how could the universe know how to make organism that would breathe or anything that would be related to life?

You're talking specifically about biological evolution. I'm talking about physical evolutionary processes in general, as I outlined in my post. Hydrogen atoms condense into stars, which synthesize heavier elements in their cores and during their explosive deaths, which seed those heavier elements back into space, where they are incorporated into later stars and planets. Those various complex atoms, governed by the laws of physics, can undergo many complex chemical reactions, which can lead to self-replicating molecules. The molecules that replicate better will become more prevalent, and so on. This is the origin of biology, and biological evolution describes what happens from here. It's NOT a RANDOM process, it's a process that occurs according to the laws of physics, which are NON-RANDOM.

I don't know what you mean when you talk about the universe "knowing" how to make organisms. The universe doesn't need to "know" anything. The laws of physics exist, and things happen according to them. That's all.

Marko S. wrote:
Source of the post Why didn't universe create something other than life that we are familiar?

Maybe it has. We have not yet discovered most of what the universe has to show us. We have only explored this tiny corner of it.

Marko S. wrote:
Source of the post Evolution is just full of holes.
About self-reproduction, it can be achived only if there is a complete organism that would reporoduce in order to survive.

Not true. Self-replicating molecules can be created through natural chemical reactions. All that is required is various chemical elements, and an energy source to power the reactions.

Marko S. wrote:
Source of the post Where did that energy come from? All living beings have energy. You, me, everybody. Energy can't be created from nothing. There has to be at least some force or living being to make it.

Virtually all of our energy ultimately comes from the Sun. Sunlight powers photosynthesis, which grows the plants we eat, and the plants that our domestic animals eat (which we then eat). Unless you mean something else?
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16 Jul 2017 07:36

Watsisname,

Thanks!

HarbingerDawn,

You are true on alot of things. 

I also believe in something called a 'placebo' effect for beliefs. If you believe in a certain something, you are more apt to see it in your dreams, real life, whatever. Just like how when people take pills and when they take them, believing it will cure them. It does.

Why does this work? It does cure them. It might have something to do with the mind affecting the body, or the world around it. Could easily not be the case. 
 
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Marko S.
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16 Jul 2017 08:05

HarbingerDawn,

HarbingerDawn wrote:
Source of the post Unless you mean something else?

By the Energy, I meant the creation of energy. Before our known space that we live in, it is just too complex for us to understand what there really was. Or we just can't understand it at all. Where did that energy come from?
You are of course right about Sun. We use its energy and at the same time we can create another energy.

As I said. You believe in this, I believe in that. 'Time' is eventually going to come where we are going to see what really is true. Or hear, or feel. lol 
But, what if nobody is correct? That would be great plot-twist. :lol:


 
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16 Jul 2017 08:16

Starlight Glimmer wrote:
Source of the post Just like how when people take pills and when they take them, believing it will cure them. It does.

If this was true then pharmaceutical companies would be out of business. Sometimes things can line up that way, but most of the time, what you said isn't true.

Marko S. wrote:
Source of the post By the Energy, I meant the creation of energy. Before our known space that we live in, it is just too complex for us to understand what there really was. Or we just can't understand it at all. Where did that energy come from?

That question presupposes that it came from anywhere. What if it was always there? We don't even know enough about it to ask such questions. When we try to ask questions like that, we end up making assumptions and presuppositions.
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Marko S.
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16 Jul 2017 08:29

HarbingerDawn wrote:
Source of the post That question presupposes that it came from anywhere. What if it was always there? We don't even know enough about it to ask such questions. When we try to ask questions like that, we end up making assumptions and presuppositions.

Yeah, maybe it was always there. Even before space began existing as we now it today. Maybe it's better just to answer things that we for sure can answer.
When we are talking about speculations, it is not like telling the truth.
P.S. This is off-topic, but I just saw your specs! Damn good! :shock:  
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16 Jul 2017 09:54

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