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FastFourierTransform
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13 Aug 2017 00:59

HarbingerDawn wrote:
Source of the post And this is why Antifa is bad.

Precisely because of this is why antifa is something needed in my opinion.
Nazis march in your country as proud as they can be, thinking of themselves as superior beings, capable of crushing every obstacle they encounter because they think they pertain to the most vigorous kind of social group, they bring fire-arms, helmets and shields prepared to fight people, one of these nazis takes his car runs over the crowd like a terrorist, to make things clear, kills one person and injures 19, and with all of that the response to this is "Antifa is bad". Really? I'm sorry but I totally disagree with that on many levels. Each well behaved democrat should consider himself an antifascist.
 
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HarbingerDawn
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13 Aug 2017 04:03

FastFourierTransform wrote:
Source of the post Nazis march in your country as proud as they can be, thinking of themselves as superior beings, capable of crushing every obstacle they encounter because they think they pertain to the most vigorous kind of social group, they bring fire-arms, helmets and shields prepared to fight people

There is a difference between being prepared to fight and actually starting a fight.

FastFourierTransform wrote:
Source of the post one of these nazis takes his car runs over the crowd like a terrorist

Yes, in response to the violence started by antifa.

FastFourierTransform, you seem to be either not totally informed about the situation or ignorant as to what antifa is. Antifa are people who believe it is morally right to use violence against those they consider to be "fascist". They make it their mission to assault far-right and Neo-Nazi individuals - just because they disagree with them. Why do you think those white supremacists showed up geared for a fight? Because antifa has been assaulting people like them recently.

Antifa thinks that the best way to confront bigotry and hatred is with violence. But all that leads to is more violence. If antifa had not started assaulting people in the first place, I bet that no one would have been run over by anything.

I'm not saying that the "fascists" are blameless in this case, because of course they aren't. But you need to look at where the violence started.
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midtskogen
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13 Aug 2017 06:02

HarbingerDawn wrote:
Source of the post But you need to look at where the violence started.

Kids argue that way.
People marching in the streets promoting ridiculous ideas, whether political or religious, deserve ridicule, not equally ridiculous counter protests.  People should just laugh and ignore.
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HarbingerDawn
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13 Aug 2017 06:14

midtskogen wrote:
HarbingerDawn wrote:
Source of the post But you need to look at where the violence started.

Kids argue that way.
People marching in the streets promoting ridiculous ideas, whether political or religious, deserve ridicule, not equally ridiculous counter protests.  People should just laugh and ignore.

That's not far off from what I'm saying. My position is that violence is not an appropriate response to an expression of ideas, no matter how vile those ideas may be.
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JackDole
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13 Aug 2017 09:19

HarbingerDawn,
of course you are right. Violence only produces more and more violence.
But not everyone can bear the idea that anything like national socialism in Germany could be somewhere repeated in the world.
And not everyone who is associated with the Antifa advocates violence.
 
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HarbingerDawn
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13 Aug 2017 09:26

JackDole wrote:
Source of the post And not everyone who is associated with the Antifa advocates violence.

Just because not every member of group [x] advocates for the bad things that exist in group [x]'s ideology doesn't mean that those bad things aren't there, and doesn't mean that I have to like group [x].
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JackDole
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13 Aug 2017 10:07

HarbingerDawn wrote:
Source of the post Just because not every member of group [x] advocates for the bad things that exist in group [x]'s ideology doesn't mean that those bad things aren't there, and doesn't mean that I have to like group [x].

Of course not.
It is just the same as saying, I do not like the Christians, because of the crimes they have committed throughout history.
Can you say, of course.
Or, I do not like the whites because of the terrible crimes they have committed throughout history. Or the Germans, the Chinese, the blacks, the ... and so on.
Someone could say it, of course.
Or I do not like the masons because a mason I know is a bad man. In my opinion. Could I say, of course.
But of course, you have not to like the Antifa. But to say, 'The Antifa is bad' is, in my opinion, something exaggerated.
 
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13 Aug 2017 10:48

I never said I dislike all antifa members, I said I have a problem with the antifa movement because of its association with violence. Just like I have a problem with Christianity, but not all Christians; Islam, but not all Muslims, and so on. You are confusing ideology with people.
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JackDole
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13 Aug 2017 11:29

HarbingerDawn wrote:
Source of the post You are confusing ideology with people.

As far as I know, the ideology of Antifa is simply antifascism. (I can be mistaken, of course). But I think that is basically good.
In the end, however, it are always the people who advocate or reject violence.
 
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HarbingerDawn
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13 Aug 2017 11:50

Based on everything that I have heard, and all the research that I have done, the use of violence is a central theme in the antifa movement. The Department of Homeland Security in the US state of New Jersey actually considers antifa to be a terrorist movement.
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The Potato
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18 Aug 2017 08:09

WooHoo! 100 posts.

Wasn't Anti-fa was based off of anti-fascist action. If that means anything.

Personally a few assaults does not warrant a hit-and-run and injuries to 19 people and the death of 1.

Also I think its bullshit that people need a permit to protest.
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Salvo
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21 Aug 2017 02:42

The Potato wrote:
Also I think its bullshit that people need a permit to protest.

Please...

Anyway, I've heard a few episodes of antifa violence, but also from neo-fascist people (precisely of "Forza Nuova") and friends of mine have been personally involved in some of those. I agree with most of you, I personally can't stand both situations. It's ok if you're nostalgic about "the great power of x fascist state", but it's just YOUR idea. You can't pretend people must think exactly like you.

This is sad because nationalism have some benefits from some points of view, people is more motivated to work hard for their country. But if nationalism is just "I hate everyone except people from my country" and violence, please no.
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JackDole
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21 Aug 2017 05:35

Salvo wrote:
Source of the post This is sad because nationalism have some benefits from some points of view, people is more motivated to work hard for their country.

I think nationalism is wrong in every form. We must learn that we are not Germans or Italians or Russians or Americans, but that we are all human beings of one earth.
Or we will not survive.
I know this statement is a commonplace, but I think it is true.
 
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Fireinthehole
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21 Aug 2017 07:59

JackDole wrote:
Salvo wrote:
Source of the post This is sad because nationalism have some benefits from some points of view, people is more motivated to work hard for their country.

I think nationalism is wrong in every form. We must learn that we are not Germans or Italians or Russians or Americans, but that we are all human beings of one earth.
Or we will not survive.
I know this statement is a commonplace, but I think it is true.

We are humans, but humans are diverse. We speak different languages, we have different cultures, we have different religions, different ways of believing what is right and what is wrong etc. I don't think humanity is ready for a world without countries and borders.
 
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JackDole
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21 Aug 2017 11:41

Fireinthehole wrote:
Source of the post We are humans, but humans are diverse. We speak different languages, we have different cultures, we have different religions, different ways of believing what is right and what is wrong etc. I don't think humanity is ready for a world without countries and borders.

We have to learn to live without borders. If we want to survive.
I have nothing against different cultures. On the contrary, this is one of the things we need to learn - to respect the different cultures.
As far as the different languages are concerned, all people should speak the same language. (This need not necessarily be English. I am for Esperanto.)
But all languages should be preserved. This means that most people should be at least bilingual.

(Regarding the religions - all religions should be banned. Especially the monotheistic.  Religions that have many gods are usually more tolerant. (But this is just my personal opinion.))
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