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Conspiracy Theory Thread

Posted: 13 May 2019 19:42
by Stellarator
Summary: The most well-known conspiracies of our modern age are catalyzed by a crisis of confidence in so-called experts, and seem keen on undermining your trust in authority rather then seeking out any truth, however misguided the premise of that search may be.


Conspiracy Theory Thread

Posted: 14 May 2019 13:16
by A-L-E-X
Stellarator, do you find having authority figures a good thing?  I feel that authority eventually becomes corrupt and abuses their power.  I didn't see the video, but them having an image of JFK is interesting.  Part of the reason behind the controversy behind the JFK assassination has to do with CIA people coming out and saying they had information about the assassination beforehand and chose to do nothing about it, as well as the Zapruder films and seedy characters that were associated with (and prosecuted) Oswald.  There's a long dark history behind the events that took place before the assassination, including Oswald's connection to Castro and a visit to Mexico where he was enlisting the help of mercenaries that were sympathetic to his cause, including ex-CIA people.  He dined with these people a week or so before the assassination, as presented in the PBS documentary.  Also, Jack Ruby, another ex-CIA agent, murdering Oswald before he could be put on trial, is pretty suspicious.  To this day, much of what happened just before and just after the JFK assassination is shrouded in mystery and remains classified (one particular nugget was rumors of JFK's last mistress keeping a diary and she was mysteriously murdered 3 days after JFK was killed, and CIA people ransacked her apartment looking for the diary.  The person who murdered her was never caught.)

J Edgar Hoover, who was basically blackmailing the Kennedys to retain his power was also a shadowy figure in all of this- he was against the civil rights movement and threatened Martin Luther King after he had him wiretapped.  It was a very unstable period in history.

In my view, most humans should use their brains and do their own research rather than relying on authority- but maybe I am overestimating the average human's intelligence and capability of doing that.  That opens up another question, in a healthy and sustainable society, should we count all votes equally, or should people of higher intellect and merit count for more?

In general I like to do my own research rather than rely on anyone else, no matter who they are.

Conspiracy Theory Thread

Posted: 14 May 2019 18:28
by Stellarator
A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post Stellarator, do you find having authority figures a good thing?

Yes I do, but we must be aware of their limitations and create laws or regulations that curb their interests so that they are doing what is best for society, not themselves or their peers. "What is good for society" is a tricky and subjective term, and could apply for anything, but in this context I use it to describe basic Humanitarian rights and other freedoms of that nature. They must also adhere to what is agreed-upon "truth" - a fundamental concept of reality that no-one can disagree with.

The reason why I think there should be "authorities" and "experts" on certain things (like science), is because the modern human being cannot hope to learn and be efficiently literate in all the modern advances and nuances of fields like STEM, or politics. We can certainly try, but without specialized training and thus gaining expertise in, a certain field, we cannot pull off complicated modern tasks that our society needs. The end result of a technological civilization is to have experts on various tasks and endeavors. To make sure that these "experts" are on the right track (they are only human after all), we must refer to an authority - most often not a person or thing, but rather an fundamental theory or principle that has been proven without a doubt and which is represented by a school of thought or organization (in physics, the fundamental would be Newtonian Thermodynamics or Einsteinian Relativity, and their representation would be by other physicists).

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post In general I like to do my own research rather than rely on anyone else, no matter who they are.

I agree with you, but there must be some degree of trust in some authority. Otherwise it is a slippery slope of subjective "truths". While I do not doubt your information mining techniques, it is difficult to say for sure without relying on something already proven that the information you (or I) gather is valid. At some point, there is a bedrock idea that all of our theories rely on, and we must assume that it is true (we cannot rightly prove it, because we are not experts on the matter of, say, General relativity). Unfettered "research" and "questioning" established authority (without much consideration for overall goals or system of origins) is how we got Flat-Earthers (mixed in with a healthy dose of ignorance and religious ideals).

Conspiracy Theory Thread

Posted: 15 May 2019 11:41
by DoctorOfSpace
We lost one of the greats recently when it comes to conspiracies.

UFO researcher Stanton Friedman dies after half-century effort to prove alien life
Image

“I have never seen a flying saucer, and I have never seen an alien. But remember, I chased neutrons and gamma rays for a lot of years as a physicist and never saw one of them either,” “In fact, I’ve never seen Tokyo, but I’m convinced it’s there.”

Conspiracy Theory Thread

Posted: 16 May 2019 00:42
by Watsisname
Round trip airfare between Seattle and Tokyo: ~$1000
Gamma ray source and detector:  a few hundred dollars
Summon a flying saucer to study:  ???

Conspiracy Theory Thread

Posted: 16 May 2019 01:15
by Stellarator
DoctorOfSpace wrote:
Source of the post We lost one of the greats recently when it comes to conspiracies.

That is indeed sad. He was one of the few level-headed ones (as far as UFOlogists go ;)).

Conspiracy Theory Thread

Posted: 16 May 2019 15:12
by DoctorOfSpace
Watsisname wrote:
Source of the post Summon a flying saucer to study:  ???


PRICELESS


Conspiracy Theory Thread

Posted: 16 May 2019 18:46
by Watsisname
Where are the flying saucers?  I just see bright lights.  Signal flares by the looks of it (and much more than just a couple miles away). Sodium would easily explain the golden color.  I would love to be proven wrong, someone should bring a spectrometer to the next sighting.

Conspiracy Theory Thread

Posted: 16 May 2019 20:57
by Watsisname
Ah, much better.  This man can properly summon UFOs.


Conspiracy Theory Thread

Posted: 24 May 2019 16:54
by A-L-E-X
Stellarator wrote:
A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post Stellarator, do you find having authority figures a good thing?

Yes I do, but we must be aware of their limitations and create laws or regulations that curb their interests so that they are doing what is best for society, not themselves or their peers. "What is good for society" is a tricky and subjective term, and could apply for anything, but in this context I use it to describe basic Humanitarian rights and other freedoms of that nature. They must also adhere to what is agreed-upon "truth" - a fundamental concept of reality that no-one can disagree with.

The reason why I think there should be "authorities" and "experts" on certain things (like science), is because the modern human being cannot hope to learn and be efficiently literate in all the modern advances and nuances of fields like STEM, or politics. We can certainly try, but without specialized training and thus gaining expertise in, a certain field, we cannot pull off complicated modern tasks that our society needs. The end result of a technological civilization is to have experts on various tasks and endeavors. To make sure that these "experts" are on the right track (they are only human after all), we must refer to an authority - most often not a person or thing, but rather an fundamental theory or principle that has been proven without a doubt and which is represented by a school of thought or organization (in physics, the fundamental would be Newtonian Thermodynamics or Einsteinian Relativity, and their representation would be by other physicists).

A-L-E-X wrote:
Source of the post In general I like to do my own research rather than rely on anyone else, no matter who they are.

I agree with you, but there must be some degree of trust in some authority. Otherwise it is a slippery slope of subjective "truths". While I do not doubt your information mining techniques, it is difficult to say for sure without relying on something already proven that the information you (or I) gather is valid. At some point, there is a bedrock idea that all of our theories rely on, and we must assume that it is true (we cannot rightly prove it, because we are not experts on the matter of, say, General relativity). Unfettered "research" and "questioning" established authority (without much consideration for overall goals or system of origins) is how we got Flat-Earthers (mixed in with a healthy dose of ignorance and religious ideals).

Yes, absolutely, I find that so many people don't know how to research that if all authority were completely absent, there would be a vacuum that would become occupied by those who seek to grab power in their place, like "cults."  The leaders of these groups know human weaknesses and can play upon them to control people into behaving like sheep.
In a free and open society, the presence of experts is actually what keeps the society free and open, otherwise we would descend into cliques and cults.

This has been all over the news around here

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/26/us/politics/ufo-sightings-navy-pilots.html


Experts were careful to note that there are many non-alien explanations for these unexplained sightings. Still, this isn’t the first major report on UFOs in recent years. In December 2017, the Times published a story about the Pentagon’s Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, which shut down in 2012, and described “sightings of aircraft that seemed to move at very high velocities with no visible signs of propulsion, or that hovered with no apparent means of lift.” In 2018, a UFO research group shared a declassified Pentagon video which supposedly showed a U.S. Navy aircraft encountering a UFO.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/12/ ... 1559079001

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/03/ ... 1559079001

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2019/0 ... kAsUft1zps

Updating this post because GMA conducted an interview with military personnel- the sec'y of defense came out and said that there are only two possible explanations- extraterrestrial or another nation with technology far in advance of what the US has.

https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/news ... s-63396652
https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/news ... e-63331280
https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/news ... s-63315985