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FastFourierTransform
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16 Sep 2017 10:57

Speedademon wrote:
Is is possible for winged spacecrafts to fly(or should I call this atmospheric surfing?) in gasgiant's thin upper atmosphere and come back to orbit safely again?

This has been done on Mars. It's called aerobraking manouvre
 
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Watsisname
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16 Sep 2017 11:06

It's also a super fun thing to do in Kerbal Space Program or Orbiter. :)
 
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Speedademon
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16 Sep 2017 11:25

FastFourierTransform wrote:
Speedademon wrote:
Is is possible for winged spacecrafts to fly(or should I call this atmospheric surfing?) in gasgiant's thin upper atmosphere and come back to orbit safely again?

This has been done on Mars. It's called aerobraking manouvre

Yes I know what is aerobraking and have done this in Orbiter spaceflight simulator multiple times. I thought it might be different from Mars(or any other terrestrial world with atmosphere) on gas giants since they have fast rotation, which causes large planetary scale storms. 
If we long to believe that the stars rise and set for us, that we are the reason there is a Universe, does science do us a disservice in deflating our conceits?
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PlutonianEmpire
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16 Sep 2017 13:02

Watsisname wrote:
It's also a super fun thing to do in Kerbal Space Program or Orbiter. :)

But not in Space Engine? For shame! ;) :lol:
Specs: Dell Inspiron 5547 (Laptop); 8 gigabytes of RAM; Processor: Intel® Core™ i5-4210U CPU @ 1.70GHz (4 CPUs), ~2.4GHz; Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit; Graphics: Intel® HD Graphics 4400 (That's all there is :( )
 
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Watsisname
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16 Sep 2017 17:36

Speedademon wrote:
Source of the post Yes I know what is aerobraking and have done this in Orbiter spaceflight simulator multiple times. I thought it might be different from Mars(or any other terrestrial world with atmosphere) on gas giants since they have fast rotation, which causes large planetary scale storms. 

Ah, yes, it still works for gas giants, or indeed any planet with atmosphere.  The atmosphere will always act to brake the orbit because it cannot rotate faster than orbital speed.  It also can't be too strong of a braking -- a faster wind going against you will just make the optimal aerobraking altitude higher.
 
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spaceguy
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17 Sep 2017 18:35

Does anyone know any accurate 2d simulations of convective cloud systems that can be run on the average PC?
Something like this that doesn't use 100 million particles. 
https://youtu.be/4ujZIMWkaHg

Here's an example of how I'd image one would appear to be.
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21 Sep 2017 23:12

Surprised you guys aren't talking about Hurricane Maria and its impacts in the Caribbean and the second Mexico earthquake and trapped children :( Also had a 3.6 quake in LA and a 3.8 quake in Illinois this week!  I recall the Nature papers I posted about the tremor-TC connection......
 
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23 Sep 2017 13:44

Am I allowed to post here if I like science but I am mad at it for now because of all the work it is making me do?
 
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Watsisname
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23 Sep 2017 20:21

spaceguy wrote:
Source of the post Does anyone know any accurate 2d simulations of convective cloud systems that can be run on the average PC?
Something like this that doesn't use 100 million particles. 

I don't think it is possible to get accurate simulations of convective systems, especially tropical cyclones, in 2D.  These systems are fundamentally three dimensional in the sense that low level winds circulate towards the low pressure center, and then rise up, releasing the latent heat energy, and then flow outward aloft.  If you only treated it as 2D at the surface, for example, then starting with a low pressure center would result in immediately equalizing the pressure and killing the storm.  The storm needs that 3D airflow to breathe.

Particles is not a good method either, because a system of clouds is not a system of particles.  Clouds are parcels of air where the water vapor has condensed, so one instead models the air movement and the processes behind condensation, precipitation, etc.  

It might be possible to 'emulate' something like a cyclone without that intensive physics in 2D by removing the air from the center of the system as in a draining bathtub model, but I have no idea how well it would really work for making something that looks believable.  I doubt it would do a good job capturing the behavior of a real cyclone.

Jerrymolie, welcome to science.  We do it because it is intellectually stimulating, not because it is effortless. ;)
 
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spaceguy
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23 Sep 2017 20:28

Watsisname wrote:
spaceguy wrote:
Source of the post Does anyone know any accurate 2d simulations of convective cloud systems that can be run on the average PC?
Something like this that doesn't use 100 million particles. 

I don't think it is possible to get accurate simulations of convective systems, especially tropical cyclones, in 2D.  These systems are fundamentally three dimensional in the sense that low level winds circulate towards the low pressure center, and then rise up, releasing the latent heat energy, and then flow outward aloft.  If you only treated it as 2D at the surface, for example, then starting with a low pressure center would result in immediately equalizing the pressure and killing the storm.  The storm needs that 3D airflow to breathe.

Particles is not a good method either, because a system of clouds is not a system of particles.  Clouds are parcels of air where the water vapor has condensed, so one instead models the air movement and the processes behind condensation, precipitation, etc.  

It might be possible to 'emulate' something like a cyclone without that intensive physics in 2D by removing the air from the center of the system as in a draining bathtub model, but I have no idea how well it would really work for making something that looks believable.  I doubt it would do a good job capturing the behavior of a real cyclone.

Well that's disappointing to hear. Thanks for answering anyways. :(
 
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Mr. Missed Her
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25 Sep 2017 06:54

Watsisname wrote:
spaceguy wrote:
Source of the post Does anyone know any accurate 2d simulations of convective cloud systems that can be run on the average PC?
Something like this that doesn't use 100 million particles. 

I don't think it is possible to get accurate simulations of convective systems, especially tropical cyclones, in 2D.  These systems are fundamentally three dimensional in the sense that low level winds circulate towards the low pressure center, and then rise up, releasing the latent heat energy, and then flow outward aloft.  If you only treated it as 2D at the surface, for example, then starting with a low pressure center would result in immediately equalizing the pressure and killing the storm.  The storm needs that 3D airflow to breathe.

Particles is not a good method either, because a system of clouds is not a system of particles.  Clouds are parcels of air where the water vapor has condensed, so one instead models the air movement and the processes behind condensation, precipitation, etc.  

It might be possible to 'emulate' something like a cyclone without that intensive physics in 2D by removing the air from the center of the system as in a draining bathtub model, but I have no idea how well it would really work for making something that looks believable.  I doubt it would do a good job capturing the behavior of a real cyclone.

Jerrymolie, welcome to science.  We do it because it is intellectually stimulating, not because it is effortless. ;)

I'd expect that you could get fairly accurate hurricanes by simulating several 2D layers, with the air from one layer "moving" throughout other layers. Of course, it probably wouldn't have anywhere near the complexity of a purely 3D simulation.
Space is very spacious.
 
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Watsisname
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25 Sep 2017 18:53

I think that could work fairly well, though I might call it a pseduo-3D simulation at that point since you keep track of the flow between layers.
 
A-L-E-X
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26 Sep 2017 00:48

Back on one of the other science forums I frequent we're talking about signs that the volcano Agung might erupt in the near future and the possibility of it causing a (temporary) cool down in the climate because it's near the equator and it's usually low latitude volcanoes that do that.  Would probably be somewhere between VEI 4-6 if it did happen.

By the way, what you guys are talking about sounds like 2.5D graphics :-D
 
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Mouthwash
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27 Sep 2017 07:56

In SE I see liquid water oceans on planets at or above 100 C. Is there a scientific explanation for this?
 
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XBrain130
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27 Sep 2017 08:05

Mouthwash wrote:
In SE I see liquid water oceans on planets at or above 100 C. Is there a scientific explanation for this?

look at the atmospheric pressure. if it is high, then the boiling point raises dramatically.

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