Ultimate space simulation software

 
User avatar
Watsisname
Science Officer
Science Officer
Posts: 1842
Joined: 06 Sep 2016
Location: Bellingham, WA

Science and Astronomy Questions

08 Jan 2017 22:27

To be more clear, it's an interesting question, but not the sort of thing we could feasibly figure out.  In particular, having Venus and Mars form in the same place would lead to a chaotic situation where they interact with one another, and the outcome could be a very large number of things which depend extremely sensitively on the initial conditions and is therefore basically impossible to predict.  In other words, I dunno!  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
User avatar
DoctorOfSpace
Star Engineer
Star Engineer
Posts: 1270
Joined: 22 Aug 2016
Location: SpaceX Mars Colony
Contact:

Science and Astronomy Questions

08 Jan 2017 22:39

I suspect that meant to say Mars where Venus is, but even then there is no way to really figure out any of this.  
CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K 4.2GHz 6-Core Processor - RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 - GPU: EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SC Black Edition
Quando omni flunkus, moritati
 
User avatar
JackDole
Star Engineer
Star Engineer
Posts: 1712
Joined: 02 Nov 2016
Location: Terra

Science and Astronomy Questions

09 Jan 2017 00:14

Starlight Glimmer wrote:
What if Venus formed in the place of Mars and Mars formed in the place of Mars, along with Uranus and Neptune switching places and Pluto and Ceres switching places at the start of the solar system?

If Mars were where Venus is, he would presumably be a warm desert planet, just like Dune (Arrakis), only smaller.

If Venus was where Mars is, she might have a less heated atmosphere. The air pressure might be lower. Perhaps it would then be habitable.

The change of place between Neptune and Uranus should have no effect.

An object like Pluto can probably not exist in the asteroid belt. The influence of Jupiter would break him.
JackDole's Universe 0.990: http://forum.spaceengine.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=546
JackDole's Archive: http://forum.spaceengine.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=419
JackDole: Mega structures ... http://old.spaceengine.org/forum/17-3252-1 (Old forum)
 
User avatar
Hornblower
Pioneer
Pioneer
Posts: 595
Joined: 02 Nov 2016
Location: Gale Crater
Contact:

Science and Astronomy Questions

09 Jan 2017 03:51

What I think would happen is absolutely nothing. Let me explain. Since they are forming in each other's places, the out come would be nearly identical to what we see today
"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
JackDole
Star Engineer
Star Engineer
Posts: 1712
Joined: 02 Nov 2016
Location: Terra

Science and Astronomy Questions

09 Jan 2017 04:53

I'm assuming that Mars, if it were at the position of Venus, would have a 24.6 hour as today. In any case, since it is smaller than Venus, it would probably have been missed by the object that has slowed Venus.

And Venus has either a 243-day rotation like today, because the object that hit it also changed its orbit, or it was not hit there, and therefore today would have a completely different day's rhythm. In any case, it would make a significant difference.
JackDole's Universe 0.990: http://forum.spaceengine.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=546
JackDole's Archive: http://forum.spaceengine.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=419
JackDole: Mega structures ... http://old.spaceengine.org/forum/17-3252-1 (Old forum)
 
User avatar
DoctorOfSpace
Star Engineer
Star Engineer
Posts: 1270
Joined: 22 Aug 2016
Location: SpaceX Mars Colony
Contact:

Science and Astronomy Questions

09 Jan 2017 12:38

Hornblower wrote:
Source of the post Since they are forming in each other's places, the out come would be nearly identical to what we see today

That is most probably not true.  Gravitational perturbation would be quite different, especially over long periods of time.
CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K 4.2GHz 6-Core Processor - RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 - GPU: EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SC Black Edition
Quando omni flunkus, moritati
 
User avatar
Cantra
Pioneer
Pioneer
Posts: 342
Joined: 02 Nov 2016
Location: Sedna

Science and Astronomy Questions

09 Jan 2017 14:40

Can someone make this system?
 
User avatar
Banana
Astronaut
Astronaut
Posts: 56
Joined: 17 Dec 2016
Location: The future

Science and Astronomy Questions

23 Jan 2017 20:08

But what would happen if Mars and Venus suddenly switched positions right now?
Bananas are eggcellent.
 
User avatar
DoctorOfSpace
Star Engineer
Star Engineer
Posts: 1270
Joined: 22 Aug 2016
Location: SpaceX Mars Colony
Contact:

Science and Astronomy Questions

23 Jan 2017 20:32

Banana wrote:
Source of the post But what would happen if Mars and Venus suddenly switched positions right now?

Mars would get slightly warmer and Venus would still be Venus.
CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K 4.2GHz 6-Core Processor - RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 - GPU: EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SC Black Edition
Quando omni flunkus, moritati
 
User avatar
JackDole
Star Engineer
Star Engineer
Posts: 1712
Joined: 02 Nov 2016
Location: Terra

Science and Astronomy Questions

23 Jan 2017 20:48

Or Venus would look something like this.
scr00021.png
JackDole's Universe 0.990: http://forum.spaceengine.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=546
JackDole's Archive: http://forum.spaceengine.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=419
JackDole: Mega structures ... http://old.spaceengine.org/forum/17-3252-1 (Old forum)
 
User avatar
DoctorOfSpace
Star Engineer
Star Engineer
Posts: 1270
Joined: 22 Aug 2016
Location: SpaceX Mars Colony
Contact:

Science and Astronomy Questions

23 Jan 2017 21:20

That would be unlikely.  Even at the distance to the Sun from the orbit of Mars there is still more than enough thermal energy reaching Venus and the amount of Co2 on Venus to keep the rampant greenhouse effect running.  Simply changing the orbital location won't do much unless it is very far out.
CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K 4.2GHz 6-Core Processor - RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 - GPU: EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SC Black Edition
Quando omni flunkus, moritati
 
User avatar
JackDole
Star Engineer
Star Engineer
Posts: 1712
Joined: 02 Nov 2016
Location: Terra

Science and Astronomy Questions

23 Jan 2017 22:06

Of course, I can not prove this, I am not a physicist. I suspect, however, that the air pressure would drop somewhat, and thereby also the greenhouse effect would be reduced somewhat.
JackDole's Universe 0.990: http://forum.spaceengine.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=546
JackDole's Archive: http://forum.spaceengine.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=419
JackDole: Mega structures ... http://old.spaceengine.org/forum/17-3252-1 (Old forum)
 
User avatar
Watsisname
Science Officer
Science Officer
Posts: 1842
Joined: 06 Sep 2016
Location: Bellingham, WA

Science and Astronomy Questions

24 Jan 2017 03:38

If Venus had started at Mars' location, its subsequent evolution would probably have been very different.  Much is still unknown about how Venus did evolve, but we think it started out a lot like Earth, with oceans and a strong greenhouse atmosphere. The main problem was not so much that the proximity to the Sun made it too hot, but that the intensity of the sunlight dissociated water vapor (into hydrogen and oxygen, and the hydrogen escapes) too quickly, so Venus dried out.  Then, without oceans for a tectonic or rock weathering cycle, feedback effects could spiral out of control, and thus the runaway greenhouse.
 
User avatar
Salvo
Pioneer
Pioneer
Posts: 370
Joined: 03 Nov 2016
Location: Veneto, Italy
Contact:

Science and Astronomy Questions

24 Jan 2017 07:01

JackDole wrote:
Of course, I can not prove this, I am not a physicist. I suspect, however, that the air pressure would drop somewhat, and thereby also the greenhouse effect would be reduced somewhat.

It depends on what you mean with "switching orbit", if it means "slowly changing orbit to reach the new one" or "immediately changing orbit" then I think the current conditions of Venus would last for a lot of time, and we wouldn't probably be able to see the changes within our lifespan.
Still, after some thermal energy have been dissipated, I guess some components of the atmosphere will slowly start to cool down and eventually drop on the surface as ice and the air pressure will decrease. :)
The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human ambition.

CPU: Intel Core i7 4770 GPU: Sapphire Radeon RX 570 RAM: 8 GBs
 
User avatar
Watsisname
Science Officer
Science Officer
Posts: 1842
Joined: 06 Sep 2016
Location: Bellingham, WA

Science and Astronomy Questions

25 Jan 2017 00:25

If Venus were moved to Mars (let's imagine immediately) then it would lose energy (initially) at a rate of about 60 petawatts.  Which sounds like a lot, but that's only 0.1 milliwatts per kilogram of atmosphere.  So if this energy loss were only manifest as a change in temperature (which is somewhat wrong), and assuming the change were uniform through the whole atmosphere (which is very wrong), then the temperature would drop at a rate of 2x10-7 Kelvin per second, or about 6 Kelvin per year.  Surprisingly slow -- but Venus has a very massive atmosphere, so it takes a long time to cool down.

We could do the same calculation for moving Earth to Mars, in which case it would cool by about one Kelvin per day.  A lot faster, despite being a smaller change in distance from the Sun!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest