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Mouthwash
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Can you prove that the Earth isn't a hollow sphere?

21 Jul 2017 09:07

I found this website today, run by an interesting fellow called 'Wild Heretic.' It seems really intricate and comprehensive, so I thought it would be interesting to post here. Wild Heretic believes that we live on the inside of a hollow sphere, lit by a half-light half-dark Sun at its center (he claims that light bends in order to produce the effect of rising and setting), that the moon is an optical illusion, that manmade satellites don't really exist, that the stars are light artifacts produced in the atmosphere and can never be seen above it, and he has a bunch of explanations for the other celestial bodies like comets and galaxies.

It all seems shockingly intelligent (although he does insist that the fact that the Earth doesn't move under your feet when you jump disproves heliocentrism). He also has nine pieces of evidence for his model:

1. Some early modern maps have inversed latitude and longitude
2. Modern polyconic maps show more accurate sizes and shapes
3. 19th century balloon observations (that is, without an intervening medium) gave the impression of a concave surface
4. 4,000 foot plumb lines reportedly were farther away from each other at the bottom of a mine shaft
5. A laser shot between two posts (over water) seems to curve downwards
6. An old rectilineator experiment indicates a concave surface (the experiment has been criticized here)
7. Radar and radio wave horizons cannot be explained on a convex ball
8. Ships disappearing below the horizon are an optical illusion
9. Light bends upwards, which allows for the rising/setting illusion of the sun and moon

What do ya'll say? Can you refute all this, or must we accept that everything we know is a lie?
Last edited by Mouthwash on 21 Jul 2017 17:48, edited 6 times in total.
 
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Starlight Glimmer
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Can you prove that the Earth isn't a hollow sphere?

21 Jul 2017 09:15

When you jump you are moving with the Earth, even as you go into the air. Thus it does not move. 
 
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Mouthwash
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Can you prove that the Earth isn't a hollow sphere?

21 Jul 2017 09:20

Starlight Glimmer wrote:
When you jump you are moving with the Earth, even as you go into the air. Thus it does not move. 

Yes... that is something I know quite well. Can you please make a better effort to read before responding?
 
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Can you prove that the Earth isn't a hollow sphere?

21 Jul 2017 09:22

mmm after reading some of it, sorry but not to offend, it sound very wrong. the stars are bits of the sun?
and this image from 400km height showing the entire planet? it looks like an image from 30000km away
it even doesnt look like earth to me.
Image
maybe it is one of the wrong images he is talking about?
i will read it more when i come back home. i had a glimpse of it
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JackDole
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Can you prove that the Earth isn't a hollow sphere?

21 Jul 2017 10:04

In fact, Eratosthenes already proved over 2200 years ago that the earth is a globe and that we live on the outer surface.
 
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Mouthwash
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Can you prove that the Earth isn't a hollow sphere?

21 Jul 2017 10:27

JackDole wrote:
In fact, Eratosthenes already proved over 2200 years ago that the earth is a globe and that we live on the outer surface.

How does he do that? I'm no great shakes at physics, but it seems like he just proved that the Earth is round.
 
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Can you prove that the Earth isn't a hollow sphere?

21 Jul 2017 10:39

Mouthwash wrote:
Source of the post How does he do that? I'm no great shakes at physics, but it seems like he just proved that the Earth is round.

Carl Sagan explains it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUxmCXSmtVo

Mouthwash wrote:
Source of the post that manmade satellites don't really exist,

As someone who was watched the International Space Station fly overhead and enter orbital sunset many times, and who has photographed it in detail, I can assure you that this is false.

Mouthwash wrote:
Source of the post 5. A laser shot between two posts (over water) seems to curve downwards

Exactly what you would expect if you lived on the outside of a sphere. If you lived on the inside, it would seem to curve upwards.

Besides all of this, if you observe ships moving away from you over the horizon, you notice that their highest parts disappear last, and that when they are just over the horizon, you are seeing them from a downward angle, which would be impossible if we were not living on the outer surface of a round object.
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Marko S.
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Can you prove that the Earth isn't a hollow sphere?

21 Jul 2017 12:07

Title says that if we can prove that Earth isn't hollow. Then, why everybody are arguing about flat Earth? There's a lot of holes in Flat Earth model. But still is debatable as much as hollow Earth.
I will certainly read those claims and come with conclusion.
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Can you prove that the Earth isn't a hollow sphere?

21 Jul 2017 12:57

It was well known in antiquity that the Earth was round for several reasons. Not just thanks to Eratosthenes. In particular, it was also noted that lunar eclipses occurred at different times of the day depending on the observation location.  Pliny (1st century AD) gave a long list of arguments in his Natural History.
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Can you prove that the Earth isn't a hollow sphere?

21 Jul 2017 18:43

Can you prove that the Earth isn't a hollow sphere?


Yes, easily, using data collected by our own forum members.  I'll use two examples.

1)  The propagation of seismic waves.

On the old forum, midtskogen showed a recording of an earthquake which took place in New Zealand, from his station in Norway.  A key observation in this recording is the lack of direct shear waves.

Shear waves are not visible from stations located more than about 120° from the earthquake center, because they cannot penetrate through the liquid outer core of the Earth.

Another observation is to use the arrival time of the first vibration as a function of distance across the surface of the Earth.  If we live on the inside of a hollow sphere, then this arrival time should grow linearly with that distance, because the fastest path the earthquake waves can possibly take is through the surface.

But what we actually observe that the delay grows more slowly with increasing distance:

Image

So, how does one reconcile these observations with a hollow Earth model?



2)  The strength and direction of local gravitational field.

On the solid Earth, your local gravity points downward with a strength within a few tenths of a percent of 9.81m/s2.  How would gravity work on the inside of a hollow Earth?

If you propose the gravity is due to the distribution of matter, then you have a problem.  The gravitational field inside of a hollow sphere is everywhere equal to zero!  We would all be weightless.

If you propose the gravity is an apparent force due to the Earth's rotation, then you still have a problem.  You cannot make the local apparent gravity be equal to g everywhere, or everywhere pointing downward with respect to your horizon.

Let's compute the formulas.  If standing at a latitude [math] on the inside of a hollow sphere with radius R, spinning with angular velocity [math], then you experience a centrifugal acceleration of:

[math], in a direction which is away from the axis of rotation and at an angle [math] degrees from your local horizon.  (Oh wait, there is no horizon on the inside of a hollow Earth). ;)  Okay, make that [math] degrees from nadir.

So at my location at 48°N, I should experience a gravitational force only 67% as strong as at the equator, and pointed 48° from nadir.  Midtskogen at 60°N should feel a force with 50% of the equatorial value, and at 60° from nadir.

Needless to say, this is very inconsistent with reality.  But I'll let midtskogen correct me if he happens to feel like he's standing on a 60° slope at 0.5g. :P



Now let's look at the nine so-called evidences for the hollow Earth.

"Some early modern maps have inversed latitude and longitude"
This is not evidence.  A sphere has the same geometry whether you are on the inside or the outside, and you can attach coordinates to it in any way you want.

"Modern polyconic maps show more accurate sizes and shapes"
Also not evidence, for the same reason.  Any projection of a curved surface onto two dimensions will work the same way whether the features you are mapping are on the inside or the outside of that surface.

"19th century balloon observations (that is, without an intervening medium) gave the impression of a conclave surface"
So we were on the inside of a hollow until the 20th century, and then suddenly it switched?  I like this conspiracy.

"4,000 foot plumb lines reportedly were farther away from each other at the bottom of a mine shaft"
Or we can cite the greater distance at the tops of the towers of the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge as a better established and contradictory example.
Furthermore, if this claim is true and we conclude it is because we're on the inside of a sphere and gravity is pulling them outwards, then we run into that above problem of explaining how gravity works.

"A laser shot between two posts (over water) seems to curve downwards"
Sure: atmospheric refraction.  Works just as well on being on the outside of a sphere as on the inside.  So this is not evidence.

"An old rectilineator experiment indicates a conclave surface (the experiment has been criticized here)"
Ok.

"Radar and radio wave horizons cannot be explained on a convex ball"
Sure they can.  Every experienced HAM radio operator is familiar the role of the ionosphere on radio wave propagation.

"Ships disappearing below the horizon are an optical illusion"
AKA:  "When faced with observations that are incompatible with your world view, declare them to be illusions."  Like stars, the Moon, and satellites.

"Light bends upwards, which allows for the rising/setting illusion of the sun and moon"
Atmospheric refraction again.  This isn't evidence of being on the inside of a hollow Earth.


So this list of nine evidences is really just a list of claims which are either wrong, dubious, or otherwise compatible with being on the outside of a sphere.


Edit:  Whoops, fixed some formatting errors.
 
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Can you prove that the Earth isn't a hollow sphere?

21 Jul 2017 19:18

Every time these sorts of threads or discussions come up Watsisname always comes in with an in depth and informative post and it never disappoints.   
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Can you prove that the Earth isn't a hollow sphere?

21 Jul 2017 19:37

DoctorOfSpace wrote:
Source of the post Every time these sorts of threads or discussions come up Watsisname always comes in with an in depth and informative post and it never disappoints.   

yeah, wats is awesome
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Can you prove that the Earth isn't a hollow sphere?

21 Jul 2017 20:15

I also thought of using the gravitational time dilation with respect to altitude as a proof, because it's really cool, beautifully matches what you predict for the field outside a sphere, and is totally incompatible with being inside a hollow sphere.  But I doubt any of us have the precision of measurement to demonstrate it ourselves; you'd have to trust the scientists, and that's not as fun as seeing it yourself.

Another might be the Belt of Venus, which everyone can easily see, and its most natural explanation is the shadow of the Earth through the atmosphere.  You could explain it with a flat Earth, but I think it would be difficult to explain in a hollow earth model.  How does the shadow get projected upwards?  What is the Sun setting behind?

Where the heck does the Sun set in a hollow Earth, anyway?  Is part of Earth getting vaporized every time I watch it go down?
 
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Can you prove that the Earth isn't a hollow sphere?

22 Jul 2017 02:52

Watsisname wrote:
Source of the post Where the heck does the Sun set in a hollow Earth, anyway?  Is part of Earth getting vaporized every time I watch it go down?

Why would it set? It's not like we are living inside the Earth to know what is there. Your points are great as always. And maybe our surface is ticker and hollowness starts when we go deeper. We haven't dug so much in the past and present to really see.
But why we must see? It can be detected by sonars. But sonars can't go that deep, since they reflect waves as soon as they hit the bottom.
My points aren't so great. Because it's usually different from others believes. But this may ask some more questions.
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Can you prove that the Earth isn't a hollow sphere?

22 Jul 2017 06:29

Marko S. wrote:
Source of the post But why we must see? It can be detected by sonars. But sonars can't go that deep, since they reflect waves as soon as they hit the bottom.

We can study the interior of the planet by observing the propagation of seismic waves, as Watsisname mentioned. These observations are consistent with an interior consisting of several layers or material, with no hollow region.
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